[mgoetze]

---

[bluecalm]

Penalty imo according to the principle: "if they bid suits we have bid naturally or suggested by t/o double then our doubles are penalty".

[Mbodell]

This so has to be penalty. If partner wanted your other major, he could bid it. If he wanted some sort of forcing noise he could try 2nt. He's a passed hand so it isn't like he's got a zillion minor cards, and even if he did, he could just pass.

[aguahombre]

Will assume Michael posted this for someone else's benefit. He certainly already knew the answer.

[mgoetze]

Well, I don't think it's so obvious. Do you just bid 2♠ if you are, say, 3145?

[aguahombre]

mgoetze, on 2012-May-20, 09:59, said:

Well, I don't think it's so obvious. Do you just bid 2♠ if you are, say, 3145?

It depends on whether partner is prone to Landy with 4-4 majors, I guess. A bid at all over a weak notrump should have overcall strength. Now, it just depends on your hand's strength whether you must "do" anything. Bear in mind, partner will know you have at most 2 hearts regardless of what you "do".

[Fluffy]

what do you expect landy bidder to do over double other than pass?

[mgoetze]

Fluffy, on 2012-May-20, 12:09, said:

what do you expect landy bidder to do over double other than pass?

Well maybe I could expect him to bid 2♠ with 5-4 and pass with 4-5?

[aguahombre]

mgoetze, on 2012-May-20, 12:23, said:

Well maybe I could expect him to bid 2♠ with 5-4 and pass with 4-5?

That would work. Then all we would have to do is figure out how to penalize them all the other times we want to. Suspect responder will not be trying to play in one of the Landy hand's suits very often, so it probably doesn't matter.

[JLOGIC]

Mgoetze's point is probably that responder will never have a penalty X, RHO is not psyching and has bid 2H having heard his RHO show the majors. LHO has indicated 2+ hearts.

It is an interesting argument that it is optional with 31 in the majors and some D, that might even be the best agreement but you cannot assume that without a special agreement.

[P_Marlowe]

For Takeout.

Assuming no psychs, simple math tells you

The Landy guy has 4 hearts, the NT opener has 2 hearts, the 2H bidder has
5 hearts, that leaves 2 hearts.

Of course - East will expect, that West converts the double quite often,
but it is for T/O.

And if you agree, that the T/O on this level, can never be based on a void /
single, than West can judge the situation very good.

Our agreement is simple - as long as it makes sens, low level double are for
take out.

With kind regards
Marlowe