[onoway]

I've been watching some videos over the last week which depressed and scared me. People with a LOT of money, some of them among the wealthiest in the world by their own assessment, are now out of the shadows and proclaiming they do indeed intend to reshape global society in the image they are more comfortable with. Starting with online universities and then going down the age chain with brick and mortar schools for the younger generation. At this point visions of Hitler youth started going through my mind...it's all presented in the best possible colours, to be resistent to the idea is to be against wholesome food and integrity and suchlike.

I thought that this New World Order stuff was all just conspiracy theorists getting carried away but the evangelical fervor on the last video was pretty frightening. Some of these guys are obscenely rich through marketting and that's ALL they have to show for their lives. Well, the presentor granted 12 Make A Wish kids their wishes but that's hardly in the same league as for example, trying to knock out malaria. Or distributing free vaccines and so forth in third world countries. Granted, there are all sorts of problems at the present time with corruption and dishonesty and so forth. I just don't see any sign in THIS bunch that they are above such skullduggery themsleves, certainly nothing they can point to suggests any sort of feeling of social responsibility. That is, beyong reshaping the global society into one more pleasing to them.

They talk a a lot about ethical behaviour, while at the same time advocating buying up water rights so as to make untold riches from the future control of water. Also, just think, they wouldn't need armies, they only need to control the flow of water to control populations of people. This seems to me to be somewhat contrary to the idea of ethical behaviour, but ethical behaviour often clearly means something different to the ultrawealthy than it does to me.

I am guessing that the people eagerly climbing aboard ignored or glossed over a very clear and specific warning that the organization has no sympathy or time for whiners, so anyone coming in who loses all their money will be given short shrift. When little guys get to play in the big guy's game, chances are they WILL lose all their money. These guys didnt get to be many times over multimillionairs by being kind and generous. At least some of them got it by being extremely smart about how to manouvre people into doing what they want them to do. They are extremely adept at getting people to buy whatever it is they are selling.

Not sure what if anything I am expecting to result from this post but I am feeling deeply disturbed and wanted to share. If these guys weren't so rich and so smart I wouldn't think twice about it. Someone once said that the ultrarich can create their own reality and that's exactly what's openly being planned here. Brave new World, indeed.

[PassedOut]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Do you have some links or references?

[onoway]

yes of course I have links to the videos. I thought about posting them and decided not to, the reluctance to post them rising from not wanting to be in any way helping to promote these guys. The saying is that any publicity is better than none.

Sorry if that makes the posting seem like babble; it maybe is to some degree as I am still trying to come to some sort of equilibrium about it; the last video in particular really shook me up. I couldn't help thinking of people like Mao who feel the need to have everyone conform to their ideas, some of which might even be great ideas. So many of them start out with the best of intentions and believe they are the only ones who will remain pure in heart and deed...

I was just reading a year end report of an aid organization in Palestine http://www.mediafire...vdgbqa6kbh5lad2 Bustan_Qaraaqa_Annual_Report_2011 (it was awkward and slow to access on my computer but very interesting to see what they are doing once it does finally download) and how what they regard as the deliberate manipulation of water supplies to the region makes life there even more difficult than it needs to be. They are assuming it's part of an effort to force the Palestinian farmers off the land. The pattern is already set, it seems, although there is no reason to think there is any direct connection between this group and that particular example.

[PassedOut]

Are the videos you have been watching put out by folks who are explaining why they want a new world order and how they want to get folks to get involved with that program?

[onoway]

this is beginning to look like 20 questions... yes the videos are put out by the people who start out explaining why and how the financial orders have collapsed according partly because of corruption and greed and partly because historically it supposedly was inevitable. That part involved saying (among other things) that fiat currencies (which I assume means currencies not actually backed with gold or some such actual asset) have ALL failed and the average life of such currencies is 40 years. They suggest that it's now 40 years since the US dollare was taken off the gold standard entirely and thus became a true fiat currency, which has come to the end of its life.

They then go into the various scandals which have affected the US (and the world, for that matter) so drastically and announce that everyone in Washington (and other governments) is currupt and the whole system is rotton and the only way out is to scrap it and start over. So the US can take its rightful place as leader/guardian of the world.

If you want to know what they are suggesting as financial strategies, it rests for now on buying very large and very undervalued apartment complexes in districts which promise to have jobs continue, such as in some high end districts around various cities in Texas. Gold and silver up to or even over $2000 an ounce for gold and something they describe as people being their own bank. A very rough understanding -they supposedly make a deposit and then borrow their own money (supposedly to buy these apartment complexes?) and pay themselves the interest they are charging themselves to borrow their own money. None of these are strategies are truly available to many people I should think, although they claim the contrary. Of course you would need their help to set this all up correctly. And as I mentioned before, if every penny was lost, then tough luck, though that was mentioned only in passing in the third video.

The business of buying water rights came up in the third video when the presenter got down to tent revival enthusiasm for how they are going to change society around the world, starting with the children as they are the only way to really change society long term. He was entirely without hesitation or shyness about claiming that they WILL do this and that they are collecting extremely wealthy people who are supportive of their aims. I know of two supporters, one of them on his board of directors, both extremely smart marketters and as far as it's possible to tell, nothing else. One made millions starting out by making ebooks on dating advice and became one of the most successful sellers of information marketting on the internet. I have some knowlege of him and a great deal of respect for his intelligence, he is extremely bright and an avid student of what makes people do what they do. I believe him to have good intentions but even so not so sure I would want him to be the arbitrar of all society. The other claims to have a social conscience because he is supposedly involved in helping fight animal abuse in someplace like Honduras. He is a Canadian, and has no claims to be doing anything whatsoever here that could possibly be checked up on, aside from business.

They want people to get involved by sending them money of course; in return they get a membership (so they can rub shoulders with the uberrich) and a course on what the extremely wealthy are supposedly doing to conserve and increase their wealth. It is a little odd to imagine that people who have risen to the top of the top should suddenly decide to share all their investment strategies with the great unwashed, but that's the main hook.

[PassedOut]

onoway, on 2011-December-13, 15:49, said:

this is beginning to look like 20 questions...

Did not want to be a pest, but wanted to get a handle on what you were describing. Thanks for humoring me.

This does sound like a marketing venture to me, as you suggested. If they get a large following among the kids, I guess I'll look into it, but I truly doubt that will happen.

[BunnyGo]

Just to note a couple things onoway:

1) Regarding your first post (you've since elaborated a bit, but still without citations of any kind) It does sound quite a bit conspitorial with you just spouting the standard larouche bull that gets more attention every election cycle, and no evidence that you are actually quoting anyone or any source that has at most 1 screw loose).

2) While all fiat currencies not currently in use have failed at some point (by definition) so have all (so called) non-fiat currencies. This includes gold. Examples include recent and past, but are in both directions (in Rome for example, gold became so rare that there was hyper-deflation and the economy collapsed simply because they were not using a fiat currency, and everything was based on availability of gold, which China had limited. In Egypt the economy collapsed simply because one very wealthy king threw so much gold in the streets there was hyper inflation. In modern times we are not so silly as to think that the economy should be based around one antiquated aspect of what we produce). The point is that even gold is a fiat currency, just one we have less control over. As the Spanish empire learned (or didn't as it fell) you can't eat gold...it's only worth what you can sell it for, hence is fiat.

3) The Jews already are the new world order. I suggest you read "Protocols" and get up to speed on what all of us have been up to.

4) After reading your follow up post, it sounds like a con. The whole thing. They may be making money on some investments (water and housing are certainly necessary resources to sell in the future), but the idea of sending them money to "join" I'd wager dollars to donuts is a con.

[onoway]

BunnyGo, on 2011-December-13, 17:24, said:

Just to note a couple things onoway:

1) Regarding your first post (you've since elaborated a bit, but still without citations of any kind) It does sound quite a bit conspitorial with you just spouting the standard larouche bull that gets more attention every election cycle, and no evidence that you are actually quoting anyone or any source that has at most 1 screw loose).

2) While all fiat currencies not currently in use have failed at some point (by definition) so have all (so called) non-fiat currencies. This includes gold. Examples include recent and past, but are in both directions (in Rome for example, gold became so rare that there was hyper-deflation and the economy collapsed simply because they were not using a fiat currency, and everything was based on availability of gold, which China had limited. In Egypt the economy collapsed simply because one very wealthy king threw so much gold in the streets there was hyper inflation. In modern times we are not so silly as to think that the economy should be based around one antiquated aspect of what we produce). The point is that even gold is a fiat currency, just one we have less control over. As the Spanish empire learned (or didn't as it fell) you can't eat gold...it's only worth what you can sell it for, hence is fiat.

3) The Jews already are the new world order. I suggest you read "Protocols" and get up to speed on what all of us have been up to.

4) After reading your follow up post, it sounds like a con. The whole thing. They may be making money on some investments (water and housing are certainly necessary resources to sell in the future), but the idea of sending them money to "join" I'd wager dollars to donuts is a con.

I am not going to cite sources for the reasons I already said. These people frighten me and I am not normally scared of shadows. You are certainly free to assume whatever you please as a result of that decision.

What I know about currencies, fiat or otherwise, you could fit on the head of a pin; I was only quoting part of what they were saying.

I know nothing about your point number 3, the people I know about who are involved with this are several Americans, one Canadian and supposedly one Australian. Aside from the two I knew, several others are apparently well known in the financial world, including at least one having published best selling books on the topic.

This is most certainly not a con in that I am absolutely positive the people who join WILL get a membership and the monthly newsletters and so forth they are expecting The group has been in operation for a year now, and claim to have done much better than.. well, basically than anyone else. They waved around numbers but it didnt mean a lot to me. But.. I have had dealings with the one person and he has not yet defaulted, lied or cheated on anything promised. That world is intensely competitive and word gets out pretty quickly if someone is a con artist and they won't last. He has quite a number of years in the business and is highly regarded by peers and customers. He is both very very smart and very protective of his good name. I can't imagine either of the two I know about would involve themselves so intimately with something unless they felt it would have a serious chance of success. If they are typical of the rest of the group.... This is a big part of what I find frightening.

[blackshoe]

IME, Jews everywhere are Jews first and Americans, or whatever, second.

Any money will fail if you let the government (or the bankers) screw with it.

[32519]

blackshoe, on 2011-December-13, 22:50, said:

IME, Jews everywhere are Jews first and Americans, or whatever, second.

Any money will fail if you let the government (or the bankers) screw with it.

I just couldn’t resist replying to this post. Quite recently I had a religious nut saying something very similar to me but from a completely different angle. I will probably be attacked for repeating the nut’s statement/argument, but hey, who cares? These forums can be fun.

The nut’s argument? He asked me to read Revelation Chapter 18 which deals with the fall of Babylon. He went on to equate Babylon as the final world finance centre (the city which is to be destroyed). With Babylon’s destruction the world will weep over it. So what exactly is Babylon? None other than the world’s banking system and the stock markets.

I have been reading what onoway has to say about water as well. This may not be as crazy as some think. In many places across the globe bottled water is already more expensive than e.g. the equivalent quantity of Coke or beer. I stand to be corrected here, but didn’t one of the James Bond films not too long ago cover water conspiracies? The White Nile River has its source in Lake Victoria (bordering 3 countries; Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania). The Blue Nile River has its source somewhere in the Ethiopian mountains. The two rivers converge in Sudan before flowing down to Egypt. Ethiopia and Sudan are both predominantly desert countries. The people of both countries have been channelling water away from the Nile for their own use. The more they channel away the less reaches Egypt. These 3 countries are often in discussions as too how much water can be channelled away. Too much and suddenly Egypt is in huge trouble. Water (or the lack of it) can quite easily spark off the next civil unrest.

[phil_20686]

Water is a valuable resources, like all valuable resources it is potentially a source of conflict. Not unlike blood diamonds.

On the other hand, its hard to imagine major nations getting into a war over water. For one things, once you have the technology to build a nuclear power station it is essentially impossible to be short of water. Nuclear power + desalination = unlimited water.

[blackshoe]

Assuming your country has ocean access.

[Bbradley62]

phil_20686, on 2011-December-14, 14:07, said:

For one things, once you have the technology to build a nuclear power station it is essentially impossible to be short of water. Nuclear power + desalination = unlimited water.

It seems to me that the US has both the technology to build a nuclear power station and periodic water shortages.

[BunnyGo]

Bbradley62, on 2011-December-14, 16:52, said:

It seems to me that the US has both the technology to build a nuclear power station and periodic water shortages.

As does Israel. Except for the word "periodic".

[blackshoe]

I don't think any of our nuclear plants were built with desalinization in mind. Wikipedia mentions three desalinization plants in the US (El Paso, Tampa Bay, and Yuma). None of them are nuclear. The El Paso plant provides about 25% of the city's fresh water needs. The Tampa Bay plant has been "beset with problems" and only runs at about half capacity. The Yuma plant is mostly not run at all ( because the area has had enough fresh water from other sources that they don't need to run the plant).

[phil_20686]

Bbradley62, on 2011-December-14, 16:52, said:

It seems to me that the US has both the technology to build a nuclear power station and periodic water shortages.

There's no accounting for poor governance...

[hrothgar]

phil_20686, on 2011-December-15, 07:19, said:

There's no accounting for poor governance...

Few comments:

1. There are areas in the US that suffer water shortages
2. There are areas in the US where one might conceivably put a nuke plant
3. The US has a large coastline

Its unclear to me whether there are areas in the US that simultaneous

1. Suffer significant water shortages
2. Are good locations for a nuke plant
3. Are located on the coast (salt water is amazingly corrosive. You don't want to ship this in pipelines)

This is actually a very significant limitation (It's really difficult to try to convince people that they need to live next door to a nuke plant so we can ship fresh water to Phoenix...).

I can think of plenty of places that are on the coast and suffer severe water shortages (So Cal comes to mind) However, with all the fault lines it would be crazy to locate a nuke plant there.

I can think of places that need water and where one might plausibly place a new nuke plant, but they aren't on the coast.
There are even lots of places that are on the coast where its reasonable to place a reactor - New England comes to mind - But we have plenty of water.

I'm guessing that large scale solar thermal is a much better way to go...

[jdeegan]

onoway, on 2011-December-13, 15:49, said:

this is beginning to look like 20 questions... yes the videos are put out by the people who start out explaining why and how the financial orders have collapsed according partly because of corruption and greed and partly because historically it supposedly was inevitable. That part involved saying (among other things) that fiat currencies (which I assume means currencies not actually backed with gold or some such actual asset) have ALL failed and the average life of such currencies is 40 years. They suggest that it's now 40 years since the US dollare was taken off the gold standard entirely and thus became a true fiat currency, which has come to the end of its life.

They then go into the various scandals which have affected the US (and the world, for that matter) so drastically and announce that everyone in Washington (and other governments) is currupt and the whole system is rotton and the only way out is to scrap it and start over. So the US can take its rightful place as leader/guardian of the world.

If you want to know what they are suggesting as financial strategies, it rests for now on buying very large and very undervalued apartment complexes in districts which promise to have jobs continue, such as in some high end districts around various cities in Texas. Gold and silver up to or even over $2000 an ounce for gold and something they describe as people being their own bank. A very rough understanding -they supposedly make a deposit and then borrow their own money (supposedly to buy these apartment complexes?) and pay themselves the interest they are charging themselves to borrow their own money. None of these are strategies are truly available to many people I should think, although they claim the contrary. Of course you would need their help to set this all up correctly. And as I mentioned before, if every penny was lost, then tough luck, though that was mentioned only in passing in the third video.

The business of buying water rights came up in the third video when the presenter got down to tent revival enthusiasm for how they are going to change society around the world, starting with the children as they are the only way to really change society long term. He was entirely without hesitation or shyness about claiming that they WILL do this and that they are collecting extremely wealthy people who are supportive of their aims. I know of two supporters, one of them on his board of directors, both extremely smart marketters and as far as it's possible to tell, nothing else. One made millions starting out by making ebooks on dating advice and became one of the most successful sellers of information marketting on the internet. I have some knowlege of him and a great deal of respect for his intelligence, he is extremely bright and an avid student of what makes people do what they do. I believe him to have good intentions but even so not so sure I would want him to be the arbitrar of all society. The other claims to have a social conscience because he is supposedly involved in helping fight animal abuse in someplace like Honduras. He is a Canadian, and has no claims to be doing anything whatsoever here that could possibly be checked up on, aside from business.

They want people to get involved by sending them money of course; in return they get a membership (so they can rub shoulders with the uberrich) and a course on what the extremely wealthy are supposedly doing to conserve and increase their wealth. It is a little odd to imagine that people who have risen to the top of the top should suddenly decide to share all their investment strategies with the great unwashed, but that's the main hook.

OMG. Another silly gold bug scam? Sounds like it. More or less a staple offering in the investment world. Best advice: "Never buy gold on the end of the world."

[phil_20686]

hrothgar, on 2011-December-15, 08:42, said:

Few comments:

1. There are areas in the US that suffer water shortages
2. There are areas in the US where one might conceivably put a nuke plant
3. The US has a large coastline

Its unclear to me whether there are areas in the US that simultaneous

1. Suffer significant water shortages
2. Are good locations for a nuke plant
3. Are located on the coast (salt water is amazingly corrosive. You don't want to ship this in pipelines)

This is actually a very significant limitation (It's really difficult to try to convince people that they need to live next door to a nuke plant so we can ship fresh water to Phoenix...).

I can think of plenty of places that are on the coast and suffer severe water shortages (So Cal comes to mind) However, with all the fault lines it would be crazy to locate a nuke plant there.

I can think of places that need water and where one might plausibly place a new nuke plant, but they aren't on the coast.
There are even lots of places that are on the coast where its reasonable to place a reactor - New England comes to mind - But we have plenty of water.

I'm guessing that large scale solar thermal is a much better way to go...

But you are missing the reality, which is that most of the worlds population lives on the coast lines where the weather is more temerate and suitable for agriculture. Think of the interior of asia or australia. Even the US has a jolly great desert in the middle of its continental area, and the US has reasonable temperate weather for a landmass that size. Also. Much water is effectively from rain water from the interior via rivers. If you need less river water at the coast lines you can take more out higher up the rivers. Also, moving electricity is not that wasteful.

[jdeegan]

hrothgar, on 2011-December-15, 08:42, said:

I can think of plenty of places that are on the coast and suffer severe water shortages (So Cal comes to mind) However, with all the fault lines it would be crazy to locate a nuke plant there.

The San Onofre nuclear plant is located just north of San Diego on a fault line and partially in the ocean. It is one of five or six U.S. nukes that really ought to be shut down ASAP simply because of its location.