[Hanoi5]

1♣-2♦
2♥-3♣
3♥4♣
4♥-???

♠Qx
♥AKJxx
♦QJx
♣Qxx

You're red, they're white. It's imps. You already told your partner you held 3 controls (AK or KKK) and 5 hearts to AK, AQ or KQ. Can/would you do anything?

What if you held:

♠---
♥AKJxxxx
♦QJx
♣QJx

[Free]

How many HCP have I shown? What was 2♦? Does partner know we're balanced? ...

[Hanoi5]

2♦ was a transfer to hearts (at least 5) with 8+ HCP's. Your partner knows you have only hearts to show, either because you have the first hand (balanced) or the second (one-suited).

[rbforster]

If they aren't conventional, can I bid 4N natural with the first hand and 5♥ invitational with the second?

[hrothgar]

It's inane to post a question about the 4th round of an artificial auction without explaining what the earlier bids show / deny.

First and foremost, what hand types does 2♥ deny?
Second, precisely what does 3♣ show?
Third, what are the systemic meaning of my various rebids over 4♥?

[stegenborg]

I guess that 2♥ asked about heart quality and that 3♣ showed 5 hearts with 2 top honnors.
Then 3♥ asked about the number of controls and 4♣ showed 3.
We know nothing about partner's hand so when he signs off we probably lack at least 3 controls and they might be cashable.
So I would just pass.

If partner was interested in some of our queens he should have chosen a different sequence.

The second hand is much stronger so there I would bid something 4♠?
But on that hand I guess we would have bid differently to show the extra heart length.

If you are unsure whether partner knows which questions to ask and how to use the information a different system might be an idea.

[mycroft]

This looks like B-M transfer and asking bids, in which case, 2♦ showed GF hearts, 3♣ three controls, and 4♣ showed 5 to two of the top 3 (which is what the OP thought he was saying with his description).

I would absolutely pass 4♥ with the first hand - I have nothing more than what I showed, and we're off two control cards. We can probably take 13 of the 11 tricks left after they take their two, but that still doesn't make 6.

I would bid with the second hand. In fact, I believe that my response to 3♥ would have to be 4♥, in which case, I'd probably lie and bid 4♠ (♥AKQ. I don't want partner to pass 4♥, and we *almost certainly* have a 10-card heart fit. If he's got solid spades and we're in 7♠ and I can't ruff out the ♥Q and get to the board, I'll apologise). If 4♣ is still the right bid with this hand, I'm bidding 4♠ after 4♥, as the reason we're stopping below slam is a control issue, and I have controls that aren't Aces and Kings that make slam still possible - and partner can't know that. In fact, partner (without discussion) should understand this as a shortness cue, frankly.

(I'm assuming that partner has control asks available, but this auction has used up all the space).

[whereagles]

If pard is experienced, bid 5NT.

A natural bid, obviously. (As most undiscussed bids should be.) With a combined 31+ you should have no problems making this. Pard will raise to 6H/6NT if appropriate or pass otherwise.

Of course, if pard is the sort of person that goes berserk on bids like this, I guess you'll have to be bureaucratic and bid 4NT or pass or whatever.

[mycroft]

With a combined 31, known off two control cards, we only hope that they're not all in one suit. ♠AKJ is really going to suck in 5NT. So is ♣KJx+ in leader's hand and ♣Ax in responder's... Two bullets and the ♠J is quite possibly going to put a crimp in your style, as well.

Sure, that "never happens". And partner never takes it as GSF, or pick a slam, or otherwise. At matchpoints, it's not a bad bid (because you can't play 4NT, I guess). But when I play a half-duplex system, and partner tells me slam is not on, and there's nothing in my hand that says "I might be able to cover one of those known top losers", I trust my partner. The extra 10 points, 90% of the time, just isn't worth it.

[whereagles]

Well, I can hardly believe 5NT is going down. I think it's worth the risk to bid the full value of your hand. Who knows?... maybe pard has ♥xxx and an ace out and is weary of a slam? We have the heart J and a load of help for any other suit, so why not make one last try?

The greatest risk is IMO that pard misinterprets 5NT. That's a good reason to pass. But going down in 5NT? No way

[mycroft]

I believe it's a disappointment if 5NT goes down, but with the first hand (we are talking about the first hand, right?) I have *nothing* to believe that partner's opinion that we don't have enough controls is wrong - and if 4♥ goes down, I'll be shocked. With a hand where queens and jacks are the key, partner would have control asked in those suits, rather than asked for control count. He knows you have AKxxx and can see two losers. Even if he does have "♥xxx and missing an ace", then slam's still *at best* on pickup of the trump queen.

It seems you're concerned that partner thinks there aren't 12 tricks. I'm concerned that partner *knows* there are two pretty certain losers. If partner was concerned there isn't 12 tricks, he could have control-asked. He didn't. I have *nothing* in my hand that will save two quick losers, if that's what partner's missing - and there are, as I said before, decent chances of three quick losers.

With the second hand, as I said, there are *many* reasons to believe that partner's judgement of "two losers" is wrong - first, the trump Q "isn't" a loser; second, any spade losers aren't. That's an automatic pull of 4♥ to me.

[whereagles]

mycroft, on 2011-November-10, 13:22, said:

1. (...) Even if he does have "♥xxx and missing an ace", then slam's still *at best* on pickup of the trump queen.

2. It seems you're concerned that partner thinks there aren't 12 tricks. I'm concerned that partner *knows* there are two pretty certain losers.

1. Well, what if you don't need hearts at all? You can help pard in any 4-card suit he might have.

2. I think you're just talking yourself into not making a move 5NT is perfectly safe and could be just what pard wanted to hear to bid a slam. Well, anyway.. I would definitely take a shot here.

[mycroft]

I'm talking myself out of making a move because when I'm the club bidder and I ask for controls and don't even make a try that could get us to the 5-level...it's because I have added partner's controls to mine and have come up short. I *assume* my partner is just as good at counting to 12 as I am, and no number of queens or jacks will change that number.

Shortness *will*.

[Fluffy]

first hand pass, we are off 2 aces

second hand 4 spades.