[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2024-January-03, 07:32, said:

The first necro is the deepest

Is this really still a burning doubt among the remaining Acol players in 2024?
For almost everyone else I think it is game forcing, for the reasons you suggest.

Depends, many people now play 1♣-1any suit-2♣-2♦ as some sort of artificial bid showing strength, so 2M are weaker.

[Gilithin]

jmcilkley, on 2024-January-03, 07:11, said:

It seems the discussion of this topic has, so far, left many things still very vague.
Can anyone add more light to this topic?

Hi Mike. You play in the Acol Club so it is perhaps a special case. Within the Acol family, you basically have to judge how old and how good your partner is. Stone Age Acol allowed a Responder's reverse on invitational hands and the older players who are essentially lifetime beginners will often play this way there. But mainstream Acol has played this as a game force for a very long time and you can generally trust most of the better players and all of the younger ones not to pass you out below 3NT. When you play outside of the Acol CLub, there should be no question about the auction being GF.

[Douglas43]

From a stone -age Acol player, I don't treat respondent's reverse as GF but it does not matter much. Taking 1D-1H-2D-2S:
Opener has not got 12-14 balanced or 15+ balanced as no NT opening or rebid.
Opener has not got a 4 card suit other than Diamonds.
So opener has at least 6 diamonds (likely not 6322) and too few points to jump to 3D.
If opener has a misfitting 10/11 hcp hand being able to stop in 2NT or 3D is not so bad.
Opener's bids other than 2NT and 3D are GF. If responder bids on over 2NT or 3D it is GF.
Opener also has 3C (4th suit artificial and forcing) available on game-going hands to help explore. This can help right -side 3NT when opener has Axx or similar, or perhaps find a 6-2 heart fit or 5-3 spade fit.

[Edge_]

jmcilkley, on 2024-January-03, 07:11, said:

I hope someone is still reading this thread!
It happened to me with the bidding going 1d-1h-2d-2s

It seems the discussion of this topic has, so far, left many things still very vague.
Can anyone add more light to this topic?

Forcing game with only 11 points when facing a 15-minimum opener is perfectly sensible, however it just looks confusing to force on 11 points facing a 14-maximum. -Especially when reversing in a denied suit that guides defence against minimum declarer, so natural invitations seem preferable to a reverse when invitational, and 2S a game-forcing 13+.

Restraining opener from bidding 4th suit in case responder has 11 is a hinderance, but I think it’s more of a captaincy conflict. Responder wants control for game forcing hands while opener should captain the invitational ones as the de facto wider-ranging hand.

Game forcing is the common choice for good reason even if not all have reached the conclusion yet. Although game force needn’t promise 13 points, and is more flexible when it doesn’t have to guarantee 4 in the reversing suit. After playing this way the frequent comment is, why didn’t I do this sooner?