[gurgistan]

We are playing Precision.

Partner opens 1♣, he has 16chp+ balanced or unbalanced, his rebid will show.

I have 17hcp and a 5-card suit, so I bid 1♠. (Not sure this is best, but there you go.)

Partner rebids 1N which shows 17-19 balanced.

I use Gerber 4♣.

Partner rebids 4♠ showing 2 Aces.

I have a brain freeze and bid 6N.

We make with an overtrick as do most tables.

I failed to bid 5♣ to ask for kings and was wondering if it would have let me find 7N.

Looking at the hand afterwards, it seems partner would have rebid 5♠ at which point I know that we have 4 aces, 4 kings and I have a Queen that becomes a definite winner= 9 tricks. I also know our combined point count is 34-36.

It seems there is no way to get to 7N via Gerber. Is this correct or does someone play a treatment that allows it.

[Vampyr]

It is difficult to give a general answer without seeing the hands, but if you did ask for aces and then kings you could potentially bid 5NT asking partner to evaluate his hand for the 7-level.

[dcohio]

1♣-1♠
1NT-

Right now you know you have 34-35 points you are in a game forcing auction and you are at the one level. THIS IS WHY YOU PLAY PRECISION!!!! Don't take up all that space by bidding gerber right away. Pattern your hands, figure out if you have fits, once you do and you know where all the controls are at, you'll be able to judge the hand better.

[Fluffy]

to play slam first find a fit, then find controls and in the end find keycards. Many people would learn faster slam bidding if they didn't have ace asking bids.

[gwnn]

what's your hand??

[mycroft]

"Blackwood is a convention to keep you out of bad slams, not a convention to get you to good ones." - Easley Blackwood (in paraphrase).

The same applies with the G convention. You're allowed to bid 4C after 1C-1S; 1NT, if, after the answers, you will know what level to play on (which will, in this case, be "13 tricks minus potential losers"). So if, after 4 aces and 4 kings (and partner has a queen and a jack, or three jacks, or maybe a queen and a 5-card suit), you can see the other 5 tricks, bid 7. If you can't, you shouldn't have used Gerber - and you need to work it out at 1NT.

Do you not know if your spades will run? Start by "setting spades" with 2S, and find out if partner's doubleton is KQ later. Have a tool that patterns out NT bidder's hand? Use it, if you need to know if he's got 5 clubs. Have 5 spades and 5 diamonds, but your diamonds are bad? Show them, and see if partner can help that suit. Maybe you'll get to Keycard for *diamonds*, and find out about the DQ, which is what you need to "assume" the diamonds will run.

But if you have K4 AKT A QJT8543, (which I realize you don't, because you had 5 spades), hey, Gerber is your friend!

(please note, I'm having trouble finding a good hand that can't get the information it needs by suit set and Keycard. There's a reason I play No Gerber Ever. But I realize I'm a bit of a fanatic that way).

[awm]

As a matter of general approach, you are using ace-asking bids (blackwood, gerber, etc) a lot too frequently. You've made several posts similar to this one already.

You're playing a strong club system. You have established a game-force at the one-level. Why are you jumping into gerber? You have lots of space to determine distribution, cuebid high honors, and so forth. This will allow you to make much better slam decisions (in this case small slam versus grand slam). It's even possible that you can make seven of a minor in a 4-4 fit when only twelve tricks are available in notrump; you will never find this by bidding gerber.

[chasetb]

While I agree that you jumped to Gerber a bit too quickly, on this hand and the bidding, I think it can work. The problem is you SHOULD NOT FOCUS ON HCP SO MUCH! Once you reach the 30 HCP mark, stop counting HCP and think about tricks and controls. With this much strength, a 5-2 fit will usually get you 5 tricks (that's like an additional 3 HCP by itself). Give partner 2 other 4-card suits (or a 5-card minor suit), and you'll get another trick or two. So, I would ask Gerber, find out we have all the controls, and bid 7NT, confident that I'll make it.

[barmar]

Bidding grands confidently with balanced hands can be difficult. Success depends on finding partner with the right queens and jacks, and few pairs have methods that allow them to pinpoint them. Most grands that are bid are based on a long suit in addition to having all the aces and kings (and even then it's not easy -- see the last quarter of the Vanderbilt for an example). When neither of you has a suit longer than 5 (and I assume the 1C opener has denied a 5-card suit with his 1NT rebid), it's hard to see a source of all those tricks.