[geofspa]

Scoring: MP

---

The other evening I was sitting South at board 2 and picked up the hand above. East passes and my first turn to bid

1. Should I open this hand?

If I do not open it and the bidding continues

1♣,1♠,p

2. How should I advance?

However I advance partner bids 4♠

3. Should I make another move?

Thanks for looking and hopefully responding to this

Geof

[gwnn]

no its not an opener.

over

p-1c-1s-p

you should bid 4C.

over 4S from p, you can pass. I hope we make.

[aguahombre]

the questions are loaded with "if's"

If you are playing a forcing club system, or something else which caters to light openings, then 1♠ is just fine. If playing with me, I would rather you didn't.

"However I advance, partner will bid 4S" is extremely loaded. If you bid anything other than 4C --- and in the process seriously understate your fit and power --- then you might consider moving again over 4S by partner, but this is not a good way to play partnership bridge.

Having bid 4C as an advance to the overcall, you have done your best. You don't get to override partner's sign-off.

[Fluffy]

in second position this is clearly not an opener, at first it is close but in most styles except strong club systemas or the scenario aquahombre is telling it is not an opener at first either.

At third position I think it is right to open.


about the follow ups after pass, follow gwnn's advice.

[jjbrr]

agree with gwnn

[andy_h]

At matchpoints I like to open this hand nv at any seat. After your proposed auction I don't mind 4C splinter or 2NT if that is a 4 card inv+ raise.

[mcphee]

These are not opening bids, so pass it is for me also. The fact partner o/c 1S and the next hand passed really increases the value. I prefer to bid 2C which might give us more information and will be sure to drive us to 4S.

[pooltuna]

Q1] Only by agreement, certainly not standard as this will require major modification to your overall bidding structure to avoid getting screwed on a lot of other hands.

Q2] 4♠ seems to be the most logical choice IMO. A splinter call should not have an ace as the ace is more useful in long suits where it will help generate some of the 12+ tricks you need for slam.

Q3] does not apply but I would not

[ggwhiz]

1. No, unless 3rd seat. More of a case if you had a different suit but it's really tough to be shut out with spades.

2. I prefer 2♣ leaving max room but will drive to game (via another ♣ cue-bid) if pard doesn't.

3. No, higher ambitions are up to pard.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1Depends on your agreement set, if you play Acol, than the answer is yes,
but playing a 2/1 gf system, the answer is most likely no, for us this is a
clear cut pass.
#2 2C, you have inv.+ strength, tell this p.
After p bids 4S, you pass.
The alternative to 2C is 4C, but I am not sure, I want to force to game with
your hand, again this depends somewhat on your style regarding overcalling
with 1S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[ArtK78]

This is not an opening bid.

Having passed and hearing partner overcall 1♠, I would cue bid planning to bid 4♠ thereafter. I want partner to know that I have a real power raise to 4♠ (as a passed hand) rather than a preemptive raise to 4♠.

Once I cue bid, if partner then bids 4♠ I am done bidding. If we belong in slam, partner had ways to look for slam. Bidding 4♠ after my cue bid says we have arrived at our final destination.

[hanp]

Agree with gwnn, I think pass followed by 4C is good. I don't see the advantages of cuebidding, 4C is more descriptive and we are going to 4S anyway.

[neilkaz]

This 10 pt hand isn't good enough for me to open 1♠. I really don't like splintering with a stiff ace here since I fear that it may cause PD to expect me to better fit his read suit cards..ie pd will expect me to have 10 HCP outside of ♣ rather than 6.

I'll start more slowly with a 2♣ cue although I am going to 4♠ hoping it makes no matter what (assuming PD can't overcall on total rubbish)

[Apollo81]

The "Rule of 20" is something that you can use to decide whether to open the bidding with a borderline hand. Add your HCP to the length of your two longest suits. If the total is 20 or more, open, else pass. This will work pretty well most of the time.

Factors that might make you pass a hand that meets the rule of 20 include:
- HCP are mostly Queens/Jacks
- HCP in short suits
- lack of spot cards
- vulnerable + other negative fators

Factors that might make you open a hand that doesn't meet the rule of 20 include:
- AJT or KJT combinations, e.g. x AJTxx AJTx xxx (these are under-valued by HCP)
- a good 5 card ♠ suit, non-vulnerable at MPs (1♠ opening has a nice lead-directing and preemptive effect)
- defensive and offensive trick-strength consistent with an opening bid, e.g. xx AJT9xxx x Axx x
- 4th seat with 4+♠

Your example hand is only a 19, plus it is loaded with negatives (poor spades, singleton ♣A, ♦QJ without spot support, vulnerable), therefore it is a clear pass.

[dake50]

Clear to open 1S.
Pass if 5-suit is any other.

[NickRW]

P_Marlowe, on Jun 21 2010, 02:29 PM, said:

...#1Depends on your agreement set, if you play Acol, than the answer is yes, but playing a 2/1 gf system, the answer is most likely no, for us this is a clear cut pass...

Think it is stretching a bit too far in most Acol players eyes. Yes Acol can accomodate a few liberties compared to standard and 2/1 - however, it isn't really a system designed for very light openers as some strong club or diamond sytems are.

Change the position of the ♣A and ♥T to this:

K9xxx
Axx
QJTx
x

then it is a little closer - now the ace (may) be more than a pretty control and the diamond combo is now worth an offensive trick. Perhaps still a little bit away from a decent 1st or 2nd seat opener even so.

Add in the ♠T like so:

KT9xx
Axx
QJTx
x

Now I feel tempted.

Nick

[655321]

Apollo81, on Jun 21 2010, 12:10 PM, said:

The "Rule of 20" is something that you can use to decide whether to open the bidding with a borderline hand.  Add your HCP to the length of your two longest suits.  If the total is 20 or more, open, else pass.  This will work pretty well most of the time. 

Agree with mikeh.

[aguahombre]

since mikeh's post on this thread is unavailable to me, I got confused by 655321's post.

But, a mere 2C here, after partner's spade overcall, gives opener too many tools, and doesn't do anything to help our side. the 4C splinter is --- at the same time, knocking them out, showing the great power of this passed hand, and suggesting we might have more than just game. Not to worry about some old dogma against splintering with a stiff bullet.

[mike777]

bbo will not tell us an opener

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I can tell you if lite opener than easy1s
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If super sound opend...than easy pass


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see bbo for rest

[P_Marlowe]

aguahombre, on Jun 21 2010, 09:16 PM, said:

since mikeh's post on this thread is unavailable to me, I got confused by 655321's post.

<snip>

Not sure, if you found the referenced thread - but mikeh is not a big fan
of the rule of 20.

With kind regards
Marlowe