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overtake?

#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-June-15, 19:26

Scoring: IMP

1♠-3♦-3♥-ps
4♥-ps-4NT-ps
5♦-ps-6♥-ps
ps-ps


against BBO experts, partner leads ♦K.
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#2 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2010-June-15, 20:49

No, he _probably_ wouldn't have forced to slam holding xx in diamonds.
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#3 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 02:27

LHO is statistically favourite to hold the singleton diamond. Sure, the overtake can be the only way to set this, but it can also blow a trick. Whether or not it will be the 12th is open for discussion...

I wouldn't, unless I need a swing or so.
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#4 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 03:29

whereagles, on Jun 16 2010, 03:27 AM, said:

unless I need a swing or so.

:P
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#5 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 03:32

Fluffy, on Jun 16 2010, 02:26 AM, said:

against BBO experts

Yeah I'll overtake!

2 ways to win:
- partner had singleton ♦K
- LHO believes partner has singleton ♦K and ruffs high giving partner trump promotion
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#6 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 07:41

Fluffy, on Jun 15 2010, 08:26 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

1♠-3♦-3♥-ps
4♥-ps-4NT-ps
5♦-ps-6♥-ps
ps-ps


against BBO experts, partner leads ♦K.

As much as overtaking looks like the only clear shot to set this, did your LHO really use BW/RKC with a worthless ♦ doubleton? I would say that should be against the odds so just duck and don't give them a free discard which they might need
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#7 User is offline   lmilne 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 07:44

pooltuna, on Jun 16 2010, 08:41 AM, said:

Fluffy, on Jun 15 2010, 08:26 PM, said:


against BBO experts,

did your LHO really use BW/RKC with a worthless ♦ doubleton?

I overtake
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#8 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 07:59

Who cares, what is right opposite players who do not know what to do?

I would trust a good opponent that he has at most a singleton.

As I can see layouts where overtaking and returning will kill the defence, I will belive the bidding.
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#9 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 14:02

Codo, on Jun 16 2010, 01:59 PM, said:

As I can see layouts where overtaking and returning will kill the defence, I will belive the bidding.

At the table I found none, but can you enlighten me? What lie out is ducking aiming for?
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#10 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 14:25

Free, on Jun 16 2010, 02:32 AM, said:

Fluffy, on Jun 16 2010, 02:26 AM, said:

against BBO experts

Yeah I'll overtake!

2 ways to win:
- partner had singleton ♦K
- LHO believes partner has singleton ♦K and ruffs high giving partner trump promotion

I put a handful of things beyond BBO experts, but I don't think any of them would believe you'd bid only 3♦ with a 9 card diamond suit headed by the A

Edit: ... I hope
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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#11 User is online   awm 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 14:37

Say declarer holds something like:

♠xxx
♥AKQxxx
♦x
♣Axx

If we overtake the diamond, he can pitch a club on the diamond return. Then he pulls trump and cashes top spades, ruffing the fourth round, returns to dummy with a heart and pitches his last club on the established spade. If we don't overtake, he has one pitch (the fifth spade) but cannot get rid of his club loser. In principle he can always make by cashing one top spade and then hooking partner for ♠T9xx, but this is not necessarily going to be found at the table. Some other examples:

♠Tx
♥AKQxxx
♦x
♣AJxx

♠x
♥AKxxxxx
♦x
♣Axxx

It obviously comes down to percentages and how likely you think LHO is to bid keycard with a small doubleton diamond. I'd duck the first trick.
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a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#12 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 15:34

Partner is "supposed" to lead low from Kx here, isn't he?
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#13 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-June-16, 17:01

ok, ok, there were more lay outs than I actually though about.

Declarer actally held

♠10xx
♥AKxxx
♦x
♣A10xx
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