[dburn]

mikeh, on Jun 5 2010, 01:57 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

You deal and, in deference to Milton Work, open 1♣. LHP bids 1♥ and partner's negative double comes back to you. What do you bid?

---

2♥. I already pretended to have an eighteen count. I'm not going to pretend to have a heart guard also.

[Phil]

dburn, on Jun 6 2010, 10:25 AM, said:

2♥. I already pretended to have an eighteen count. I'm not going to pretend to have a heart guard also.

You won't stay in the Cool Guy club very long evaluating hands like this.

[mikeh]

The hand didn't develope as I have posted, because responder held QJxx in spades with a soft 4=3=5=1 6 count (all queens and jacks) and chose to pass. I hold a question and answer each week before the game, where the idea is to encourage questions about hands from the previous week...we have hand records for this game.

I was asked what one should rebid if the auction had included a negative double, and had to say that I wasn't at all sure what was best.

But the reason I said that I was fairly sure that I wouldn't bid 2♥ is that in my book it creates a force, such that responder can take a call without fear that opener will pass at his next opportunity.

Thus with a good hand and a good club fit, for example, responder might bid 3♣ to show the fit, confident that opener won't pass. Then what??

I don't like making bids that promise another call and then passing: responder will think he has no need to jump or recue...he can show where he lives and then show strength, if he holds it, next time.

Do any of the 2♥ bidders have any thoughts on this?

[Phil]

mikeh, on Jun 6 2010, 01:26 PM, said:

Do any of the 2♥ bidders have any thoughts on this?

I'll reiterate my desire to open 1N.

However, I'm on the record for 2♥. Its not that I love it, but I like 2N less, although I have been swayed by the 2N bidders. This hand does look very 'no-trumpy' and if you choose not to open 1N because its too strong, this is a reasonable valuation in spite of the shaky stop.

If I started with 2♥, I would hope for a 2♠ stall from partner that would let me clarify my hand, and I would with 2N.

If I heard 3♣ I would bid 3N but I wouldn't least comfortable about it, except I hope partner could infer that my heart stopper isn't very robust since I didn't bid NT the 1st time.

[cherdanno]

So by bidding 2H instead of 2NT you are committing to showing a game forcing single suiter with a heart stopper, instead of showing 18-19 hcp balanced with a heart stopper (what else does cuebid-then-NT show?) Great.

[MFA]

2NT

[Phil]

cherdanno, on Jun 6 2010, 01:44 PM, said:

So by bidding 2H instead of 2NT you are committing to showing a game forcing single suiter with a heart stopper, instead of showing 18-19 hcp balanced with a heart stopper (what else does cuebid-then-NT show?) Great.

I think a cue-then-NT expresses doubt about strain, not a single suiter + a heart stop (with that hand we rebid clubs after our cue). What would 3N over the negative double show?

I've already said I'd open 1N.

I simply said that "if" I opened 1♣ and partner negative doubled and "if" I rebid 2♥ what I would do. I mean, what would you do?

If I agree to bid 2N, will you be happy?

[whereagles]

mikeh, on Jun 6 2010, 06:26 PM, said:

(...) Do any of the 2♥ bidders have any thoughts on this?

I intend to follow up with 3♥ over just about anything from pard except 2NT.

[gnasher]

mikeh, on Jun 6 2010, 07:26 PM, said:

Do any of the 2♥ bidders have any thoughts on this?

2♥ is game-forcing, so I wouldn't pass 3♣.

[NickRW]

To answer the original Q, 2N is my poison - but there is no way on earth that I was opening this 1♣ playing 15-17. With one p I play 14-16(17) - I was even entertaining the idea of downgrading for that range - in the end I decided against it - but - hell - this aint worth 18 in a million years.

Nick

[the hog]

mikeh, on Jun 6 2010, 01:57 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

You deal and, in deference to Milton Work, open 1♣. LHP bids 1♥ and partner's negative double comes back to you. What do you bid?

---

You made a decision not to treat this 4333 as a 15-17 NT hand. Ok, I think I would have opened 1NT. However, having made that decision you need to follow through. I bid 2H now.

[mich-b]

A question to those who bid 2NT here :

What is the range of this 2NT for you? (is it still 18-19?)
What would you bid with 1435 16hcp?

[cherdanno]

Phil, my point was just that I believe cue-then-NT shows a one-suiter with hearts stopped, not 18-19 balanced with a questionable stopper (and if we had that hand everybody would bid like that).

[hanp]

I agree with cherdano.

My double dummy simulation suggested that this hand is a bit worse than the average balanced 17-count that does not have a 5-card suit.

[gwnn]

mich-b, on Jun 7 2010, 08:23 AM, said:

A question to those who bid 2NT here :

What is the range of this 2NT for you? (is it still 18-19?)
What would you bid with 1435 16hcp?

yes.
i would normally pass.

[dkharty]

Quote

With one p I play 14-16(17) - I was even entertaining the idea of downgrading for that range

Quote

My double dummy simulation suggested that this hand is a bit worse than the average balanced 17-count that does not have a 5-card suit.

K&R evaluator bears this out--16.00.