[gnasher]

Scoring: IMP

1♠     2♠     dbl  4♣
pass pass

---

2♠ = hearts + clubs.
Your double showed a fairly balanced 11+ without 3-card spade support.

What would you do:
- If partner's pass is forcing.
- If it isn't.

[Jlall]

Partners pass should not be forcing imo. I'd pass a non forcing pass and crack if it's a forcing pass.

[dake50]

Am I betting my 12 + partner's 12 won't set opponents' freak? Or do I bet they tried to put the guess on us? Double both cases. I must guess wrong a few times to get the bonanzas in close double situations. Wouldn't I hate +150 instead of +500?

[jdonn]

Wow this is scary, it seems really likely to me dummy has no hearts. RHO has 5, I have 5, and partner has 0 clubs or maybe 1 so he seems to have some hearts.

I guess I double because I think I have to, and I lead a club not a spade. That may be right even if we could have gotten two spade ruffs, as the first would cost me the ability to stop a heart ruff and the second would cost me a trump trick.

[hatchett]

Quote

I lead a club not a spade

. Not recommended because it would out of turn. Better to hope partner has a trump to lead.

[jdonn]

hatchett, on Nov 9 2009, 08:27 PM, said:

Quote

I lead a club not a spade

. Not recommended because it would out of turn. Better to hope partner has a trump to lead.

That's what I call a good point. In that case I actually feel better about double because there is a good chance he leads a trump if he has one.

[the hog]

jdonn, on Nov 10 2009, 08:41 AM, said:

hatchett, on Nov 9 2009, 08:27 PM, said:

Quote

I lead a club not a spade

. Not recommended because it would out of turn. Better to hope partner has a trump to lead.

That's what I call a good point. In that case I actually feel better about double because there is a good chance he leads a trump if he has one.

That actually makes me feel a bit worse about a double as I bet that partner doesn't have one to lead.

[mich-b]

The_Hog, on Nov 9 2009, 09:56 PM, said:

That actually makes me feel a bit worse about a double as I bet that partner doesn't have one to lead.

I don't think that partner ever passes with a ♣ void , unless this is a forcing PASS and he is planning a "pass and pull" to show a big hand.

[Fluffy]

double creates a force for me, I bid 4♦

[Phil]

The_Hog, on Nov 9 2009, 09:56 PM, said:

jdonn, on Nov 10 2009, 08:41 AM, said:

hatchett, on Nov 9 2009, 08:27 PM, said:

Quote

I lead a club not a spade

. Not recommended because it would out of turn. Better to hope partner has a trump to lead.

That's what I call a good point. In that case I actually feel better about double because there is a good chance he leads a trump if he has one.

That actually makes me feel a bit worse about a double as I bet that partner doesn't have one to lead.

Double and I don't feel too bad about it. If pard has some heart cards, we could be getting 300-500.

Hard to construct a hand for pard that is passing 4♣ with a club void.

Any alerts on 4♣? I assume its 'blocking'?

I don't like a forcing pass here. Do we have to bid/double just because we have 22 points and no fit?

[gnasher]

4♣ was to play.

[paulg]

I also faced this problem (except it was a non-forcing 3♣ overcall showing hearts and clubs) and I passed in this position.

Partner's pass over 4♣ sounded extremely weak, although it still took me some time to pass.

Paul

[lamford]

jdonn, on Nov 9 2009, 07:42 PM, said:

... it seems really likely to me dummy has no hearts.

It seems really likely to me that dummy has five hearts, because we are told so by the OP.

More seriously, I would pass whether partner's pass was forcing or not. If the former, I hope he will then dump me and we won't have to play such stupid methods.

gnasher, on Nov 10 2009, 06:53 AM, said:

4♣ was to play.

Really? I thought it was Gerber.

[billw55]

hmmm, I don't hold such great defense here. Doubling partscores at IMPs needs confidence in the result. I figure the most I can gain from doubling is 5 IMPs for +300 v. +100. Whereas I could lose 10 IMPs for -610 v. -150. I am not that sure that double is right.

However if partner's pass is forcing, then I have little choice. Surely it is already obvious that I hold four diamonds so bidding that suit would show extra length. I guess I hope he pulls the double, or has something unexpected in defense.

[andy_h]

If partner's pass was NF then I have an easy pass. If it's forcing then I wonder what kind of hands partner has for it. Maybe KJxxx Kx AJxxx x or AJxxxx Kx Axxx x or AKxxxx Kxx Jxx x? Or can partner have as strong as AKxxx Ax AJxxx x hoping we can double them or does he have to bid with the weak ones? Guess I'm also not a fan of pass being forcing.

[Codo]

I would double after a forcing pass and pass else. Not enogh to gain by doubling to compensate for the risk.

To me this is no forcing pass situation at all.

[phil_20686]

I think doube is fairly clear. if they have enough distribution to make ten tricks with the side suits breaking badly, then they would probably have blocked into 5c at favourable? I dont think that partner 'probably doesnt have a trump', lots of hands that have 4 trumps would block at favourable.

If you look at it for the other perspective, south will have a very weak hand at favourable and we have not discvoered our primary fit yet? This is a prime time to be agressive. If they really have 5c and a heart void they must be concerned that we have a lot of tricks in our fit, and would probably block into 5c.

Similarly, with a club void what is partners shape? 6-2-5-0? 5-3-5-0? Surely he would never pass with 7 spades, In fact im not sure that i would pass all that many 5-5 hands with a club void, maybe not any. with 6-5 or better he would surely bid given that if they have a fit so must we.

Partner should have some defence to pass 4c, and we have quite a lot too. I really can't imagine not doubling on this hand.

[gnasher]

lamford, on Nov 10 2009, 01:24 PM, said:

Really? I thought it was Gerber.

I clarified the meaning of 4♣ because somebody sought clarification of the meaning of 4♣.

It's possible that before answering such a question I should ask myself "Will Paul Lamford find this interesting?" On the whole, though, I think it's easier just to answer it anyway, and take the risk that by doing so I'm boring some portion of my audience.

[mikeh]

I would double.

I probably take more undoubled undertricks defending partscores than anybody I know, and have as few doubled partscores make against me for the same reason. I am trying to move a little more towards collecting numbers when available, while recognizing that this may well backfire. However, these auctions mandate a trump lead, and my expert partner will lead one if he has one....and he almost certainly does. He may have two.

The opps are white v red and declarer rates to hold about 1 heart, and a lot of weak spades. I think he'd bounce to the 5-level with most hands with 5 clubs...as a two-way shot and as a way of maximizing pressure. So he doesn't rate to hold 5 trump and unless dummy is 5=6, partner has at least one. I will either win an early diamond trick or I'll overruff dummy in spades and lead another trump. If I can pull 3 rounds of trump (which I may not be able to do), then the opps are not going to be happy.

This double comes with far less assurance than I usually like to feel, and I may revert to my normal chickenhood if gnasher tells me I'm -510 (or more).

As for whether partner's pass is forcing, I would expect that my double created a force only through a non-jump bid by my LHO. I wouldn't be able to pass 3♣ or 3♥, but to make it forcing at this level means, in essence, that my non-fit 11+ double created a force to game (I can't imagine any sequence on which we could stop in 4♦, which is the only non-game bid available) or to a penalty double.