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am i insane

#21 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2009-September-22, 14:18

mtvesuvius, on Sep 23 2009, 06:55 AM, said:

As a passed hand, bidding 3♣ here should show at least tolerence for partner's suit, ...

Why?

Partner can have a decent hand without great spades when he bids 2♠ over 2♥ so there could be ample values for game even though you couldn't open and/or 2♠ may be a terrible spot. Eg QJ10xx Kxx Axx Ax opposite x xxx Kxx KQxxxx and both hands could be better than that.
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#22 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-September-22, 14:53

OK the envelope please

Yes, I am insane!

I passed!

Partner justified my pessimism with some very bad declarer play (but at the time of my decision I was not aware of the fact that his declarer play is below club average), there was 1 620, 4 +140s 2 -100s (in 4S) along our +110 . I thought it was a hand too flat with bad honor placement. After the fact I started wondering whether or not I was insane. Thanks for answering.
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#23 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2009-September-23, 02:15

Congratulations on getting the best score possible with this partner.

:D

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
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#24 User is offline   yahooya 

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Posted 2009-September-23, 04:11

3♠ of couse.. 3♥ is too strong! Never confuse your partner.
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#25 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-September-25, 21:51

Trinidad, on Sep 23 2009, 03:15 AM, said:

Congratulations on getting the best score possible with this partner.

;)

Rik

and a near perfect score on the other question
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#26 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2009-September-25, 21:58

For whatever it is worth, I would have passed, too.
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#27 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-September-25, 22:27

When this was posted I thought it was a choice between 3♥ and 3♠. I guess I learn new things about people every day.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#28 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-September-25, 23:08

3S. Pass is unbelievable.
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#29 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-September-25, 23:50

3♠ seems pretty much normal. Not the right texture and playing strength to cue. Pass is only an option if pard can't play cards and does not want to learn to play cards (if he wants to learn, you have to play a decent game to inspire him lol).

The 3♣ fit bid on a queen-high suit must be some kind of halloween rant ;)
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#30 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-September-26, 09:01

whereagles, on Sep 26 2009, 12:50 AM, said:

3♠ seems pretty much normal. Not the right texture and playing strength to cue. Pass is only an option if pard can't play cards and does not want to learn to play cards (if he wants to learn, you have to play a decent game to inspire him lol).

The 3♣ fit bid on a queen-high suit must be some kind of halloween rant B)

FWIW, the reason to the 3♣ fit bid, if it makes sense, is to flag partner in on the unknown. Opener has an unknown minor. From our perspective, that minor is likely diamonds. Bidding 3♣ as a fit-bid lets partner know that Opener probably has diamonds. Partner then can judge what the hand seems to be doing better.

The downside to that, as others have said, is that it also lets RHO know what is going on.

Thus, IMO, this unique situation makes a 3♣ call not reallty rise or fall as to merits on the quality of the club suit. Rather, it rises or falls on whether letting partner and RHO know what is happening benefits us or them more, and whether any possible conclusion that the gain is ours outweighs any net benefit we may have if the secret is maintained.

In other words, if partner's gain outweighs RHO's gain when everyone knows the secret, how much is that advantage? Then, if our side is better positioned than their side with the secret maintained, how much is that advantage? Which of these two advantages, if both have advantages, is stronger?

I'm not sure what the respective values are.
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#31 User is offline   cherdanno 

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Posted 2009-September-26, 09:16

Wow, the young people these days! Now a 5431-hand with a fit for partner (and partner likely to have shortness opposite my weak 4-card suit) has become "flat"! When I was young, you had to be 4333 with xxx trumps to use this word...
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#32 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-September-26, 09:26

cherdanno, on Sep 26 2009, 10:16 AM, said:

Wow, the young people these days! Now a 5431-hand with a fit for partner (and partner likely to have shortness opposite my weak 4-card suit) has become "flat"! When I was young, you had to be 4333 with xxx trumps to use this word...

bland -- average -- 4333 --- deflated --- level --apartment --colorless ---boring --horizontal, etc

also frequently used to describe my learning curve.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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