[gnasher]

jdonn, on Sep 25 2008, 11:56 PM, said:

Please don't ask me what 1345 with no bid does when his partner is rebidding spades

Can I tell you instead? It bids 3♥ (FSF) if it has enough for game, and 2NT if it doesn't. If responder raises 2NT to 3NT without further investigation, he is almost certain to have either three hearts or a heart honour.

[pclayton]

3♥ for me. I will go out on a strong limb and claim this is forcing. At least that's what I'll say in the PM. We didn't make a WJS, and we had the opportunity to pass 3♣.

Partner should have a 6-4 (or 7-4) for this sequence. 3-1-4-5's (or weird 3-1-3-6's should bid 2♠ or 2N.

2♥ really didn't say much other than we have at least five hearts. With a lot better suit, 3♥ would be an option, but other than that 2♥ is very non-descriptive.

Both opponents has the opportunity to overcall 1♠, and they aren't exactly broke since pard has chosen a non-forcing rebid.

It's matchpoints, and I want to play 3N if pard has a double spade stopper; something like AQx void Axxx AKxxxx. If pard has little wasted in spades, then 6♣ may be on, but I'll worry about that on the next round of bidding.

Mark, I also think this is an obvious weak 2.

[SlickRicky]

pclayton, on Sep 26 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

3♥ for me. I will go out on a strong limb and claim this is forcing. At least that's what I'll say in the PM. We didn't make a WJS, and we had the opportunity to pass 3♣.

Hi Phil,

Is it common to play WJS by passed hands? Is this what you play in your partnerships?

Ricky

[pclayton]

SlickRicky, on Sep 26 2008, 07:59 AM, said:

pclayton, on Sep 26 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

3♥ for me. I will go out on a strong limb and claim this is forcing. At least that's what I'll say in the PM. We didn't make a WJS, and we had the opportunity to pass 3♣.

Hi Phil,

Is it common to play WJS by passed hands? Is this what you play in your partnerships?

Ricky

Hi Ricky:

I don't play WJS in any of my regular partnerships, but I think they are pretty standard. I don't see why they would not be played by passed hands for folks that play them.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Sep 26 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

It's matchpoints, and I want to play 3N if pard has a double spade stopper; something like AQx void Axxx AKxxxx. If pard has little wasted in spades, then 6♣ may be on, but I'll worry about that on the next round of bidding.

So you want partner to not bid 3NT with a single spade stopper?

I'm sure this is not what you meant, but your last sentence makes it look like you will pass a fast 3NT and pull a slow 3NT. Maybe you can clarify.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Sep 26 2008, 08:16 AM, said:

pclayton, on Sep 26 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

It's matchpoints, and I want to play 3N if pard has a double spade stopper; something like AQx void Axxx AKxxxx. If pard has little wasted in spades, then 6♣ may be on, but I'll worry about that on the next round of bidding.

So you want partner to not bid 3NT with a single spade stopper?

I'm sure this is not what you meant, but your last sentence makes it look like you will pass a fast 3NT and pull a slow 3NT. Maybe you can clarify.

No I want pard to bid 3♠ with a single spade stopper. I thought this was obvious from the tone of my post but maybe not.

I would however expect pard to bid 3N with a super source of tricks like solid clubs and a single stop. Axx void Axxx AKQxxx.

Josh, please don't make unfounded comments like a 'fast' or 'slow' 3N. Its bad form.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Sep 26 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

Josh, please don't make unfounded comments like a 'fast' or 'slow' 3N. Its bad form.

Uh ok? I told you what it looked to me like you meant, but then said I'm sure that's not what you meant and offered you the chance to clarify. Sorry for showing such bad form! Just to clarify, you expect partner to bid 3NT with either a single or double spade stopper, but you only want to play 3NT if he has a double spade stopper since otherwise slam is too likely, so you will judge what to do after the next round on which a very likely bid by him is 3NT. Ok I won't make any more assumptions about what that means!

Bridgewise, you are trying way too hard, I would say, to find hands for partner that don't make slam, and even your examples have a lot better than awful chances to make slam. I mean, no 9 of diamonds? Always A of diamonds never KQ? Never 2146 where hearts will usually set up with no problems?

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Sep 26 2008, 08:48 AM, said:

pclayton, on Sep 26 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

Josh, please don't make unfounded comments like a 'fast' or 'slow' 3N. Its bad form.

Uh ok? I told you what it looked to me like you meant, but then said I'm sure that's not what you meant and offered you the chance to clarify. Sorry for showing such bad form! Just to clarify, you expect partner to bid 3NT with either a single or double spade stopper, but you only want to play 3NT if he has a double spade stopper since otherwise slam is too likely, so you will judge what to do after the next round on which a very likely bid by him is 3NT. Ok I won't make any more assumptions about what that means!

Bridgewise, you are trying way too hard, I would say, to find hands for partner that don't make slam, and even your examples have a lot better than awful chances to make slam. I mean, no 9 of diamonds? Always A of diamonds never KQ? Never 2146 where hearts will usually set up with no problems?

Josh:

So we're clear:

1. I will pass 3N. I will expect this will be a better spot matchpoint-wise than 5♣. 6♣ is reaching for the moon with spade duplication.

2. Over 3♠, I will bid 4♠, which has to be a strong raise to 5♣. if your partnership wants 4N to be this, then go for it.

3. Over 4♣ I will also bid 4♠, since slam is really starting to look good. Ditto on the 4N comment.

4. I will pass 4♥ and simultaneously check the pulses of my RHO and LHO opponent to make sure they aren't dead . I will also be very surprised, but glad I didn't force this into 5♣ via a 4♠ splinter.

Diamond 9 and no KQ? Um, I think we are leaving the realm of non-forcing 3♣ calls with hands like Axx, void, KQxx, AKQxxx.

My comment:

Quote

If pard has little wasted in spades, then 6♣ may be on, but I'll worry about that on the next round of bidding.

means my next call depends on what pard does.

The bad form is the insinuation you made I would take inference from a fast or slow 3N. I really hope that's not what you meant. If you were being funny, then fine lol.

[jdonn]

It's pointless to argue with you about the bridge, so I will stick with this.

pclayton, on Sep 26 2008, 12:11 PM, said:

The bad form is the insinuation you made I would take inference from a fast or slow 3N. I really hope that's not what you meant.

You're right, that would be terrible awful form, and it has no place in this forum. From now on if I am ever close to implying such a thing I will make sure to mention something like

jdonn, on Sep 26 2008, 11:16 AM, said:

I'm sure this is not what you meant

so that there could be no possible misunderstanding unless one of us was just looking to make a fool of ourself.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Sep 26 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

It's pointless to argue with you about the bridge,

Funny, I feel the same about arguing with you about form and making assumptions about intent.

Over and out.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Sep 26 2008, 01:51 PM, said:

jdonn, on Sep 26 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

It's pointless to argue with you about the bridge,

Funny, I feel the same about arguing with you about form and making assumptions about intent.

Over and out.

Lol not sure what's funnier. That you never acknowledge the things you have no good answers for or about which you are clearly wrong, or that you think by saying something cute at the end of your post you can imply some sort of victory. Is the next post going to be the one where you avoid any sort of direct reply again by telling me how much growing up I have to do? I'm beginning to see why Justin was constantly flaming you.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Sep 26 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

pclayton, on Sep 26 2008, 01:51 PM, said:

jdonn, on Sep 26 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

It's pointless to argue with you about the bridge,

Funny, I feel the same about arguing with you about form and making assumptions about intent.

Over and out.

Lol not sure what's funnier. That you never acknowledge the things you have no good answers for or about which you are clearly wrong, or that you think by saying something cute at the end of your post you can imply some sort of victory. Is the next post going to be the one where you avoid any sort of direct reply again by telling me how much growing up I have to do? I'm beginning to see why Justin was constantly flaming you.

Fine. I'll open this back up against my better wishes, and because you feel the need to needle. And because I have nothing better to do I guess.

What exactly is unclear to you about my approach and what I have no good answers for? I thought I was very clear about my intent and my follow-ups. What am I clearly wrong about in your eyes?

I'm not claiming any sort of victory by the way. All I care about is the bridge content of this thread, although I did think you were calling me out on ethics. In fairness you did put a caveat on it, but probably better not even to mention things like the effects of tempo in an intelligent discussion, don't you think? No one else read anything into my comment of "...worry about that on the next round of bidding" as anything more than what it is, so why should you?

While I get entertained by yours (and Justin's) banter, it doesn't bother me in the least.

I won't ask you to grow up, because I don't think you don't need to. While you are younger than me, I think you are very nice young man, and I think you have made a lot of good decisions in life.

[MarkDean]

jdonn, on Sep 26 2008, 11:48 AM, said:

pclayton, on Sep 26 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

Josh, please don't make unfounded comments like a 'fast' or 'slow' 3N. Its bad form.

Uh ok? I told you what it looked to me like you meant, but then said I'm sure that's not what you meant and offered you the chance to clarify. Sorry for showing such bad form! Just to clarify, you expect partner to bid 3NT with either a single or double spade stopper, but you only want to play 3NT if he has a double spade stopper since otherwise slam is too likely, so you will judge what to do after the next round on which a very likely bid by him is 3NT. Ok I won't make any more assumptions about what that means!

Bridgewise, you are trying way too hard, I would say, to find hands for partner that don't make slam, and even your examples have a lot better than awful chances to make slam. I mean, no 9 of diamonds? Always A of diamonds never KQ? Never 2146 where hearts will usually set up with no problems?

Are we still talking about x AQxxxx JTx Jxx?

How will hearts usually set up with no problems opposite 2146 hands?
Even if we set them up, how are we going to enjoy them?