[FrancesHinden]

Jlall, on Jul 15 2008, 05:17 PM, said:

The problem is that you need "weak raise" "mixed raise" and "limit(+) raise." Most people who play inverted minors assume with a mixed raise you bid 1N, and 3D is weak and 2D is limit+.

Do they really?

I have always just assumed that 'standard' is to bid 3D with a mixed raise, pass with a pre-emptive raise and bid 2D with a limit(+) raise. How can 1NT on a mixed raise possibly make sense? What is partner supposed to do after it with a good hand, have some artificial enquiry to find out if we have 5-card support or not*?

If I were forced to use 1NT for one of my diamonds raises I'd rather bid it with a pre-emptive raise, because
i) A mixed raise is much more common than a pre-emptive raise, and
ii) I'm more likely to make 3D/go off in 1NT with a mixed raise, so the loss is greater if I'm left to play there.


Do you alert the 1NT response as 'may have an unbalanced hand with diamond support' ?

With regular partners I play 2NT as a weak raise, but that was just a random addition to original inverted raises.

*OK, so I play 1D - 1NT - 2C as artificial in one partnership. But not for this reason.

[andy_h]

Maybe the trend is, people start with 2D 6-9 and 3D as 10-12 and then discover inverted minors so they exchange both bids. And then they start to like the preempt 1m-3m more and it then comes a 0-9 range, and soon they realise that 0-9 is too difficult to handle and then define 3m as a preemptive raise of 0-6 or something and have the 7-9 with 1NT. Then they may discover criss-cross raises of 1m-jumpotherminor as a mixed raise.

[SoTired]

i thot it was 2d = LR+
j/s in other minor (3c) = mixed raise
3d = weak

OR

2d = gf
j/s om= lr
3d = mixed raise
pass = weak

[awm]

The auction 1♦-3♣ is not necessarily available for use as a diamond raise, at least not without substantial cost.

If 1♦-2♣ is forcing to game, then you need 1♦-3♣ as your invitational club hand (i.e. 9-11 with a nice six-card suit). It is not very desirable to bid 2NT invitational on that hand. This treatment (1♦-3♣ INV, 1♦-2♣ GF) is quite common in pickup partnerships especially on the west coast.

If 1♦-2♣ is just a one-round force, you still might want 1♦-3♣ as a strong jump shift (since 1♦-2♣-2♦-3♣ is presumably NF). And there is also no way to bid constructive club hands (i.e. 5-8 hcp and 6-7♣); if you don't need 1♦-3♣ as either strong or invitational then you might want it to show that hand rather than having to bid 1NT with it.

[benlessard]

IMO

In pair in order of importance.

1- you need a preemptive raise.
2- you need a single raise.
3- a forcing raise is nice because bidding a 3card major is distatefull.
4- There is no great use for 1D----3C.

In imps
1- you need a preemptive raise
2- you need a forcing raise limit or better but bidding a 3card major is playable.
3- You need a single raise
4- there is no great use for 1D-----3C.

my recommended setup in pair is

3D preempt
2D single raise
3C limit or better

In imps i suggest the same. But if you are an addict to inverted minors... that 3C become the single raise and 2D is limit or better.

[FrancesHinden]

IMO

your order is wrong.

A pre-emptive raise is actually very rare, a mixed type raise is much more common.

In one partnership I don't play any form of pre-emptive raise of a 1M opening, the weakest is a mixed raise, and I don't miss it.