BBO Discussion Forums: Bad luck or did someone drop the ball here? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Bad luck or did someone drop the ball here?

#1 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2008-June-11, 00:21

Scoring: MP


MPs, all vul:

1♠ (2♥) 2♠ (4♥)
4♠ (5♥) pass (pass)
Double AP

Result: -850.

The 5♥ bidder held: x AQJxxxx AJxx x

Any thoughts here? Or is this just one of those things.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#2 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2008-June-11, 00:26

Sorry, I know I seem to say this in every thread that is like this, but I think that doubling with the west hand is beyond terrible. You cannot X them when you have no tricks and have no idea who's hand it is.

Really, I don't understand peoples fixation with doubling them off with stuff like this. You can't even double a slam. Your 2S bidding partner provided an ace and they still made it!

I wonder how many threads like this there have to be before people decide they need some tricks to double the opponents (not directed at anyone in particular, hopefully I do not sound hostile, I am just genuinely amazed that people consistently make these doubles).
0

#3 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2008-June-11, 00:41

I don't know why west doubled. If they are down it's a good score anyway, not that he has any real reason to think they are down. They don't bid 5♥ randomly, they do it for a reason.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#4 User is offline   Halo 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 875
  • Joined: 2006-June-08

Posted 2008-June-11, 03:02

Let's say we are all convinced about not doubling (perhaps always were).

Do we bid on or pass? If a typical result for bidding on is +4 IMPS, is that enough to cover the risks?
0

#5 User is offline   Edmunte1 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 593
  • Joined: 2003-October-26
  • Location:Galati, Romania

Posted 2008-June-11, 03:13

Agree, i wouldn't have doubled in IMP's, but in MP's double is normal.
0

#6 User is offline   andy_h 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,962
  • Joined: 2007-September-14
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:The Universe, Traveling, Squash, and Scandinavia.

Posted 2008-June-11, 03:43

Agree that W does not have a double.
- Andy -

We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
0

#7 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2008-June-11, 03:50

Agree that W should just pass, not bid on.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#8 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-June-11, 04:20

I wouldn't have doubled with the West hand, but looking at the two hands, wouldn't you want to have doubled 5♥?

It's likely to be a common contract, and it's more likely to go down than not. North might have ♣Kx and be expecting the ace to be onside, or he might just be saving with a less extreme shape.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#9 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,397
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Odense, Denmark
  • Interests:History, languages

Posted 2008-June-11, 04:33

jdonn, on Jun 11 2008, 07:41 AM, said:

They don't bid 5♥ randomly, they do it for a reason.

Absolutely, they are vulnerable.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#10 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2008-June-11, 04:44

Trust your vulnerable opponents.

(joke! nobody flame me for saying this please!)
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#11 User is offline   cherdano 

  • 5555
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,520
  • Joined: 2003-September-04
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2008-June-11, 04:47

gnasher, on Jun 11 2008, 04:20 AM, said:

I wouldn't have doubled with the West hand, but looking at the two hands, wouldn't you want to have doubled 5♥?

It's likely to be a common contract, and it's more likely to go down than not. North might have ♣Kx and be expecting the ace to be onside, or he might just be saving with a less extreme shape.

But some will be in 4♥ (just imagine North jumping to 4♥ rather than fooling around with 2♥). And the double wins nothing against the tables in 4♥ when it is right, but loses half a matchpoint when it is wrong.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
0

#12 User is offline   NickRW 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,951
  • Joined: 2008-April-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sussex, England

Posted 2008-June-11, 04:50

Edmunte1, on Jun 11 2008, 09:13 AM, said:

Agree, i wouldn't have doubled in IMP's, but in MP's double is normal.

Not so sure that is right. It is fairly normal MP strategy to either double or bid one more if you think you were definitely making the contract the opps have just out bid you for. That is on the grounds that other pairs may not have faced such fierce competition and now you have to risk everything as you're probably in for a poor MP score anyway if you don't act one way or the other.

However, is it clear that 4♠ is a make on this auction? I'm not saying it was a bad bid or anything like that - but is it clear that the opps are simply raising to outbid our constructive contract - or are we doing it to them? I am not sure that it actually entirely clear in this case. In which case there is no imperative to double just to protect the score you would have got.
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
0

#13 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-June-11, 04:59

cherdano, on Jun 11 2008, 11:47 AM, said:

But some will be in 4♥ (just imagine North jumping to 4♥ rather than fooling around with 2♥).

Would you leave them in 4♥ with the West hand? I know I'd double, but I suppose some people might pass it out.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#14 User is offline   Apollo81 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,162
  • Joined: 2006-July-10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 2008-June-11, 10:10

Agree with the peanut gallery
0

#15 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,128
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2008-June-11, 10:59

pclayton, on Jun 11 2008, 01:21 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

MPs, all vul:
1♠ (2♥) 2♠ (4♥)
4♠ (5♥) pass (pass)
Double AP
Result: -850.
The 5♥ bidder held: x AQJxxxx AJxx x
Any thoughts here? Or is this just one of those things.

IMO _P = 10, _X = 8
At the table, I might have doubled :) but not after reading JLall's condemnation :rolleyes:
Guthrie.tech
0

#16 User is online   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,657
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2008-June-11, 15:46

Agree with all that Justin wrote, altho I might have used less powerful language... but, knowing me, probably not :rolleyes:
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#17 User is offline   skjaeran 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,727
  • Joined: 2006-June-05
  • Location:Oslo, Norway
  • Interests:Bridge, sports, Sci-fi, fantasy

Posted 2008-June-12, 14:01

Agree with everything Justin said here. wtf double????
Kind regards,
Harald
0
Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users