[jdonn]

QJT5 Q86 85 KQT3, w/w, imps, second seat

P P 2♠ X
P ?

2NT would be leb so realistically it's pass, 3♣ (promising values like 8+), or 3NT. Which do you choose?

[TylerE]

Relay and bid 3NT. Am I missing something here? Yes it's then, but hey? 2nd Choice: Pass and hope partner isn't joking.

[nige1]

jdonn, on Jun 8 2008, 08:33 PM, said:

QJT5 Q86 85 KQT3, w/w, imps, second seat
(_P) _P (2♠) _X
(_P) ??
2NT would be leb so realistically it's pass, 3♣ (promising values like 8+), or 3NT. Which do you choose?

IMO _P = 10, 3♣ = 9, 3N = 8.

[pclayton]

TylerE, on Jun 8 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

Relay and bid 3NT. Am I missing something here? Yes it's then, but hey? 2nd Choice: Pass and hope partner isn't joking.

If partner is joking 3N will be a long miserable grind.

I'm passing. If I bid its 3♣, not x than 3N.

[kenrexford]

Yeah, pass seems right. 2♠ in third seat has to be pounded from time to time.

[ArtK78]

I bid 3NT.

Why would partner be joking? Even if the opening 2♠ bid is "light," that doesn't mean it won't make a lot of times when partner is NOT joking.

2♠x could look very silly if partner has long clubs and a reasonable hand without a lot of cashing tricks. 3NT will make most of the time.

[kenrexford]

"Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Flat 10-Count"

Maybe...

[gnasher]

I have a 10-count with four clubs, and my system includes a bid to show a 10-count with four clubs. I'll do that.

Pass is too scary for me, especially as I have a reasonable alternative. 3NT is just an overbid.

[han]

3NT is really not an option, close between pass and 3C.

[Apollo81]

Pass. 100% clear at MPs, close to that at IMPs.

[jdonn]

I really thought this was a wtp pass, but it was a sanity check since both tables in the Cayne match bid 3NT. 3NT makes easily but pass gets 800, partner has K AKJx AKJxx xxx I believe. Obv he could have less and you wouldn't get 800, but too much less and 3NT won't make anyway. I still think wtp pass and both tables were nuts.

[ulven]

jdonn, on Jun 9 2008, 10:16 PM, said:

I still think wtp pass and both tables were nuts.

Agree. Who were the players that bid 3NT?

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Jun 9 2008, 03:47 PM, said:

dude you're from england, third seat 2S is like K fifth lol

A third-seat weak two tends to be played as wide-range rather than always weak. I agree though, that pass becomes more attractive the lower RHO's lower limit.

[Vilgan]

I disagree with the bidding 3♣. It looks likely we have the points to be in game (or close to it). If I pass, there is a good chance we are beating it 2 for 300. 3♣ imo is the worst of the 3 options, what is partner supposed to do from there? We are the ones w/ the spade stopper. RHO will have short spades behind partner (making our spade length/honors suck). We have no shortness that suggests 5♣ is a non suck contract. IMO pass is better at imps, but 3NT is the only other option that I think is even on the table. Just because a bid is part of a system, does not mean one should stop exercising judgment about what will happen next.

I think people develop a fear of doubling 2 of a major at imps, because it has gone wrong in the past and been a huge disaster. I don't think the people in this match are likely at a level where that would effect them, but lower level I see a lot of irrational fear of X'ing 2 of a major for penalty.

[gnasher]

Vilgan, on Jun 10 2008, 01:20 PM, said:

3♣ imo is the worst of the 3 options, what is partner supposed to do from there?

If he has a hand where he thinks game is on, I expect that he'll bid 3♠ and I'll bid 3NT. Otherwise he'll probably pass and we'll probably make it.

Quote

I think people develop a fear of doubling 2 of a major at imps, because it has gone wrong in the past and been a huge disaster. I don't think the people in this match are likely at a level where that would effect them, but lower level I see a lot of irrational fear of X'ing 2 of a major for penalty.

The downside of passing isn't only that they might make. Sometimes you will have a game on but get only +100 or +300 from 2♠.

[neilkaz]

I would also have passed here and think it a better bet than trying 3NT.

[Vilgan]

gnasher, on Jun 10 2008, 08:45 AM, said:

Vilgan, on Jun 10 2008, 01:20 PM, said:

3♣ imo is the worst of the 3 options, what is partner supposed to do from there?

If he has a hand where he thinks game is on, I expect that he'll bid 3♠ and I'll bid 3NT. Otherwise he'll probably pass and we'll probably make it.

And partner is supposed to just assume that we have an absolute tip top maximum pass, and a double spade stop? If we need to have the world's fair for 3NT to be right, frequently partner will just stop in 3♣. So when we DO have the world's fair (relatively speaking), then we need to take an action that will result in more than 110/130. There is a huge difference between 3♣: "yes partner I have stuff" and the hand given. Yes there are hands that 3♣ will make that 3NT will go down, which is why I think pass is the best bid.

[gnasher]

Vilgan, on Jun 10 2008, 07:22 PM, said:

There is a huge difference between 3♣: "yes partner I have stuff" and the hand given.

Perhaps as you play it. For me, this isn't far from a minimum 3♣ bid.