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Double of 1NT by passed hand

#1 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 17:03

(p) - 1♦ - (1♥) - P
(1NT) - p - p - X

Takeout or penalty?
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#2 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 17:08

Penalty, suggests a heart lead.

Takeout doesnt make sense at all, you coulda doubled 1♥ or bid 2♣ over it or bid 2♣ now.
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 17:12

Penalty.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#4 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 17:14

Penalty.
Shows a penalty double of 1♥
BTW, if I have the auction right, the doubler is not a passed hand.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#5 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 17:15

This doubler isn't really a passed hand. He passed over 1♥, true, but this doesn't announce a bad hand -- it announces either a bad hand or a hand that wants to defend 1♥X.

The double of 1NT shows the hand that wanted to defend 1♥X. This should include good hearts and some general values. It's a penalty double, with the additional inference of holding a heart suit.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#6 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 18:02

The big P.
"Phil" on BBO
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#7 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 18:05

Blood. Business. The Axe. The Hammer.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#8 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-February-19, 21:59

opps, you are PWNed
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#9 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-February-19, 22:05

I play this as choice of slams.

Do you want to shoot for +1100, or do you think we might have the grand slam of +1400?
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#10 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2008-February-20, 09:42

Thanks for backing me up on this. Was playing with my mother (always interesting...), I was doubler, my hand was something like:

♠x ♥Txxx ♦ AKx ♣Kxxxx

Hearts weren't quite as good as I would have liked, but can't have it all. Partner insisted (and still insists!) that the X here isn't penalty, so instead of chalking up 500 in 1NTx on our combined 24 count, we played 3♦ in the 3-3 'fit', drifting two off.
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#11 User is offline   brianshark 

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Posted 2008-February-20, 11:22

TylerE, on Feb 20 2008, 03:42 PM, said:

Thanks for backing me up on this. Was playing with my mother (always interesting...), I was doubler, my hand was something like:

♠x ♥Txxx ♦ AKx ♣Kxxxx

Hearts weren't quite as good as I would have liked, but can't have it all. Partner insisted (and still insists!) that the X here isn't penalty, so instead of chalking up 500 in 1NTx on our combined 24 count, we played 3♦ in the 3-3 'fit', drifting two off.

Were you planning on defending 1♥ Dbl with that?
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.
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#12 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2008-February-20, 12:07

Not really, but world of difference between defending 1♥ and 1NT. At IMPs going 180 instead of 90 isn't a huge tragedy, but 100 vs 500, or 150 vs 800 *is*.
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#13 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2008-February-20, 13:39

TylerE, on Feb 20 2008, 10:42 AM, said:

Thanks for backing me up on this. Was playing with my mother (always interesting...), I was doubler, my hand was something like:

♠x ♥Txxx ♦ AKx ♣Kxxxx

Hearts weren't quite as good as I would have liked, but can't have it all. Partner insisted (and still insists!) that the X here isn't penalty, so instead of chalking up 500 in 1NTx on our combined 24 count, we played 3♦ in the 3-3 'fit', drifting two off.

Why not just bid 2♣ over 1♥? Seems automatic to me.
Michael Askgaard
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#14 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2008-February-20, 13:57

I wanted to see how the auction would develop. I'm not crazy about bidding a bad suit that I don't want led really improves things. 1♥ isn't getting passed out. Personally, if I was gonna bid I think it's close to a diamond raise than showing clubs.
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#15 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-February-20, 16:37

Wait, partner had 3 diamonds, the 1NT bidder had a heart void?

I'm so confused.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#16 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2008-February-20, 16:52

Yep.

The NT bidder had a 4=0=5=4 7 count.
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#17 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-February-20, 16:56

classic case of "I don't like your suit pd" NT.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#18 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-February-20, 20:08

PENALTY
You have to find a bid with your hand on the first round, IMO.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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