[jmc]

I am looking for the best structure over a 2D bid showing a balanced 18-19. Our structure is really hodge podged.

Please post yours if possible. What I'm playing is below but it is not so good.

2D-
2H-transfer to 2S
2S-transfer to 2NT either to play or to be followed with 3C normal stayman
2NT- relay to 3C to play or 3D to play after 2d-2nt-3c-3d
3C-puppet stayman
3D- xfer to H, could be drop dead
3H- game forcing xfer to spades
3S- MSS
3NT- 4-5 major hand balanced (our pupp stayman responses are wierd, dont ask)
4C- gerber
4D, 4H- texas
4S- really big weak minors
4NT- quantitative

We play leb over interference over 2D if possible.

jmc

[mike777]

lol




i play mexican 2d



just play something basic and agree to it.....if it does not work,change it.

[1eyedjack]

Out of interest, why are you so keen to force the bidding so high with a balanced 18-19? Have you a really good use for the 2N rebid after 1-suit? Bridge World hand of death or some such?

[jmc]

We play a weak NT and its nice to remove the 18,19 balanced hands from the 1m openings. It makes things simpler to expect partners 1m opening to be 15-17 bal or unbalanced with a minor.

jmc

[paulg]

According to their CC, Lauria-Versace use the following structure:

2♦ --- 2♥ = 4+ ♠ or slam try 6+♣/♦/♠;
2♦ --- 2♠ = 4+ ♥;
2♦ --- 2NT = transfer to 3 ♣ :

• sign-off in ♣ or ♥;
  
• slam try 6+♥;
  
• slam try balanced;

2♦ --- 3 ♣

• asking for majors;
  
• 5+♥ 4♠;

2♦ --- 3♦ = 5+♠ 4♥;
2♦ --- 3♥ = forcing to game two-suiter in the minors singleton or void in ♥;
2♦ --- 3♠ = forcing to game two-suiter in the minors singleton or void in ♠;
2♦ --- 3nt = forcing to game two-suiter in majors at least 5-5;

[1eyedjack]

jmc, on Mar 24 2007, 09:27 AM, said:

We play a weak NT and its nice to remove the 18,19 balanced hands from the 1m openings. It makes things simpler to expect partners 1m opening to be 15-17 bal or unbalanced with a minor.

jmc

I also play weak 1N but I don't quite understand the relevance of that to the issue. But that aside, I rebid 2N with 18-19 and don't recall having problems with that. I am at the same level as if I had opened 2N, and appear to have two advantages: (1) Each of opener and responder gets to show a natural suit on the way, so the continuations following 2N should be more accurate, and (2) with a bust, responder can pass me out in 1 minor, which I would rather prefer than playing in 2N.

So what to me it appears to boil down to is: I might be persuaded to force myself to 2N with 18-19 via a 2D opener if it could be demonstrated that I gain more than I lose in respect of the above two factors. That will largely hinge on how your 1-minor opening continuations are improved, most probably in relation to the 2N rebid by opener. I do have problems with the hand of death, but that is mercifully rare.

[mike777]

1eyedjack, on Mar 24 2007, 02:59 AM, said:

Out of interest, why are you so keen to force the bidding so high with a balanced 18-19?  Have you a really good use for the 2N rebid after 1-suit? Bridge World hand of death or some such?

no...no no


just trying to take some strong hands out of a very wide opening bid..........



make no claims that mexican is a super duper convention

[pclayton]

We play 2♦ as a flat 20-21, not 18-19. Here's what I think is the best structure. Its not quite what I play, but its what I suggest:

2♥ - All weak hands. Opener can pass, bid 2♠, 2N or 3 of a minor. To me, this is the best reason to play the 2♦ opener, since you aren't condemned to play 2N.

2♠ - transfer to clubs.
2N - transfer to diamonds.
3♣ - Puppet Stayman (or regular; doesn't matter).
3♦ / 3♥ - Jacoby.

3♠ is a puppet to 3N and generally Responder passes. If responder pulls:

---->4♣ = Stayman with a balanced invite to slam.
---->4♦ / 4♥ = Jacoby and balanced invite to slam


3N is to play and has a hand with a lot of tenaces.

4♣ is Gee-ber
4♦/4♥ are Texas
4♠ is 4-4 in the minors with at least a slam invite.
4N = Some 4=3=3=3 slam invite.

[Fluffy]

I trried to play once 2♦ 20-24 bal, we didn't come with a good way to play it.

[mike777]

jmc, on Mar 24 2007, 01:16 AM, said:

I am looking for the best structure over a 2D bid showing a balanced 18-19. Our structure is really hodge podged.

Please post yours if possible. What I'm playing is below but it is not so good.

2D-
2H-transfer to 2S
2S-transfer to 2NT either to play or to be followed with 3C normal stayman
2NT- relay to 3C to play or 3D to play after 2d-2nt-3c-3d
3C-puppet stayman
3D- xfer to H, could be drop dead
3H- game forcing xfer to spades
3S- MSS
3NT- 4-5 major hand balanced (our pupp stayman responses are wierd, dont ask)
4C- gerber
4D, 4H- texas
4S- really big weak minors
4NT- quantitative

We play leb over interference over 2D if possible.

jmc

Keep in mind 95%+ of your Mexican 2D auctions will simply start as 2d=2s(relay) to 2nt then for the most part a simple nt auction takes place. If you have specific questions feel free to msg PM, me.

[pclayton]

cardsharp, on Mar 24 2007, 12:38 AM, said:

According to their CC, Lauria-Versace use the following structure:

2♦ --- 2♥ = 4+ ♠ or slam try 6+♣/♦/♠;
2♦ --- 2♠ = 4+ ♥;
2♦ --- 2NT = transfer to 3 ♣ :

• sign-off in ♣ or ♥;
  
• slam try 6+♥;
  
• slam try balanced;

2♦ --- 3 ♣

• asking for majors;
  
• 5+♥ 4♠;

2♦ --- 3♦ = 5+♠ 4♥;
2♦ --- 3♥ = forcing to game two-suiter in the minors singleton or void in ♥;
2♦ --- 3♠ = forcing to game two-suiter in the minors singleton or void in ♠;
2♦ --- 3nt = forcing to game two-suiter in majors at least 5-5;

So they can never play 2N, when responder doesn't have a 4cM?

[gwnn]

why would u want to play 3♦ when u can play 2♦ also?

I know, I know, you give em a free balance. But balancing can be very costly when opps have probably the edge in terms of hcp's.

So 2♦-2nt-3♣-3♦ seems silly to be played as s/o.

[goodwintr]

pclayton, on Mar 24 2007, 10:46 AM, said:

We play 2♦ as a flat 20-21, not 18-19. Here's what I think is the best structure. Its not quite what I play, but its what I suggest:

2♥ - All weak hands. Opener can pass, bid 2♠, 2N or 3 of a minor. To me, this is the best reason to play the 2♦ opener, since you aren't condemned to play 2N.

[QUOTE]

Is that why Bocchi-Duboin use 2C for their "Mexican 2D" (and 2D for their strong forcing opening bid)? That would provide additional opportunities to play in two of a suit (rather than 2NT) after 2C when responder is weak.

[paulg]

pclayton, on Mar 25 2007, 02:27 AM, said:

cardsharp, on Mar 24 2007, 12:38 AM, said:

According to their CC, Lauria-Versace use the following structure:

2♦ --- 2♥ = 4+ ♠ or slam try 6+♣/♦/♠;
2♦ --- 2♠ = 4+ ♥;
2♦ --- 2NT = transfer to 3 ♣ :

• sign-off in ♣ or ♥; 
  
  
• slam try 6+♥;
  
  
• slam try balanced;

2♦ --- 3 ♣

• asking for majors;
  
  
• 5+♥ 4♠;

2♦ --- 3♦ = 5+♠ 4♥;
2♦ --- 3♥ = forcing to game two-suiter in the minors singleton or void in ♥;
2♦ --- 3♠ = forcing to game two-suiter in the minors singleton or void in ♠;
2♦ --- 3nt = forcing to game two-suiter in majors at least 5-5;

So they can never play 2N, when responder doesn't have a 4cM?

I don't know what they do holding a poor 3334♣ hand (or similar).

I do know that Versace said, "in Italy, playing in 2NT is a sin"

p

[jikl]

WHy not just keep it simple, use a 15-18 NT rebid with asks (you jump to show the higher range), and make the jump NT rebid 19-20 with the same asks. The question I have, is if 2♦ is 18-19 bal, does that make 1♣ - 1♦ - 2NT some sort of weird balanced raise? And therefore, what does that make the other bids?

Sean

[pclayton]

jikl, on Mar 25 2007, 12:56 PM, said:

WHy not just keep it simple, use a 15-18 NT rebid with asks (you jump to show the higher range), and make the jump NT rebid 19-20 with the same asks. The question I have, is if 2♦ is 18-19 bal, does that make 1♣ - 1♦ - 2NT some sort of weird balanced raise? And therefore, what does that make the other bids?

Sean

If you need to ask, you wouldn't understand

[mike777]

jikl, on Mar 25 2007, 03:56 PM, said:

WHy not just keep it simple, use a 15-18 NT rebid with asks (you jump to show the higher range), and make the jump NT rebid 19-20 with the same asks. The question I have, is if 2♦ is 18-19 bal, does that make 1♣ - 1♦ - 2NT some sort of weird balanced raise? And therefore, what does that make the other bids?

Sean

For me 2nt is exactly 17 hcp.

The whole reason to play Mexican 2D is to take out some of the good hands out of a junky opening structure and make your one level bids a bit more constructive and limited.

Another option it to play Mexican 17-19 and make the 2nt rebid some sort of good long minor rebid without shortness.

[1eyedjack]

I do see the potential, but I feel that I would have to do a lot of work on my 1 minor continuations in order to realise that potential, without which the cost/benefit does not stack up. I guess you have done that work, however. More power to you.

[jikl]

Quote

QUOTE (jikl @ Mar 25 2007, 12:56 PM)
WHy not just keep it simple, use a 15-18 NT rebid with asks (you jump to show the higher range), and make the jump NT rebid 19-20 with the same asks. The question I have, is if 2♦ is 18-19 bal, does that make 1♣ - 1♦ - 2NT some sort of weird balanced raise? And therefore, what does that make the other bids?

Sean 


If you need to ask, you wouldn't understand

*sniff* Insulted for being constructive

Sean

[pclayton]

jikl, on Mar 25 2007, 04:57 PM, said:

Quote

QUOTE (jikl @ Mar 25 2007, 12:56 PM)
WHy not just keep it simple, use a 15-18 NT rebid with asks (you jump to show the higher range), and make the jump NT rebid 19-20 with the same asks. The question I have, is if 2♦ is 18-19 bal, does that make 1♣ - 1♦ - 2NT some sort of weird balanced raise? And therefore, what does that make the other bids?

Sean 


If you need to ask, you wouldn't understand

*sniff* Insulted for being constructive

Sean

Nope; just letting you know that if a few of the world's best pairs use it, then the term "why not keep it simple" is the wrong approach to inquire about the method, thats all.