[Eagle One]

Scoring: MP

2NT* ?

2N=11-15 5/5 ♣/♦

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[hrothgar]

This one depends a lot on your agreements...

Most people use 3♣/3♦ as different types of major oriented two suiters. (The either qualify strength or express a preference between the majors).

I've also seen some treatments in which 4♣ and 4♦ are used a NAMYATS type bids showing (respectively) a strong 4♥ bid and a strong 4♠ bid.

If I had this type of NAMYATS bid available, then I'd consider 4♥ with the hand in question. Lacking this agreement, I'd bid a simple 3♥. (Even with this agreement, I'd probably bid a simple 3♥. Yes, that suit is fantastic, however, I really don't have anything else)

[hotShot]

I want to play 4♥ with this, I don't want to hear that partner has ♠'s and what else do you think he'll bid, if at all because partner has hardly the strength to say something.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

3C (showing a good hand with hearts).

4H is ok as well, and probably best, because,
they cant bid 4C/4D.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mikeh]

4♥: a simple bid for a simple hand by a simple player... simply the best call available.

We need to allow partner to have a clue as to the nature of our hand, since there is a strong chance that LHO is about to get involved. 3♥ would convey less info about the quality/length of the hand, while arguably suggesting at least a little more defence on average. 4♣ as a namyats bid is an appealing idea, and i will discuss with my regular partners, altho no-one around here plays 2N this way. If it were available, then it is borderline whether to use it: I would not open this hand with namyats... it is just a touch too short of tricks (actually, about .4 of a trick short for me).

[pclayton]

4♥. Even if I had a 4♣ 'namyats' call; this isn't a 'strong 4♥' hand anyway.

[Free]

I have a good hand with ♥, so I'll bid 3♣.

[the hog]

3C should be better used for long H and 4S of course - unusual vs Unusual. I bid 4H

[blackshoe]

4♥ seems clear. Of course, I'm not at the table.

[Fluffy]

3NT, this is MP!

[Free]

The_Hog, on Mar 8 2007, 12:04 AM, said:

3C should be better used for long H and 4S of course - unusual vs Unusual. I bid 4H

If 3♣ shows ♠ also, then what's 4♣? I might bid that...

[han]

Fluffy, on Mar 8 2007, 04:48 AM, said:

3NT, this is MP!

Hahaha, good one!

[mikegill]

4H. I don't know who can make what here, but I know that I don't want them exchanging information. It's definitely not the time to get scientific when it allows them to get their act together. It could be right for them to double 4H or sack in 5m, and this is certainly the best way to make it hard on them.

[ArcLight]

This is MP

I have a question for the 4♥ bidders.

1. Do you expect to make the hand, or are you bidding as a sac?

2. If you expect to make the hand, assuming RHO has 13 HCP (the middle of 11-15) that leves 12 HCP for pard and LHO. Lets say they are split 6-6
What 10 tricks will you make? 7♥ + 1♣ = 8
What are the other 2?

If pard has the ♠ king and LHO the ace, thats 1.
Pard may also have wasted values in Dimes, like the Q.

How likely are you to make 4♥?

If < 50%, is it worth bidding 4?
What about 3♥?

Maybe you can set the opps in a part score?

[jtfanclub]

ArcLight, on Mar 9 2007, 01:09 PM, said:

This is MP

I have a question for the 4♥ bidders.

1. Do you expect to make the hand, or are you bidding as a sac?

I expect to make.

Tricks for partner?

He's 50% likely (actually slightly above 50% likely) to have a diamond ruff.

For his HCP (not counting jacks)...
K♣, Q♣, A♦, A♠, K♠ should be tricks.
K♦, Q♦, Q♠ should not be tricks.

I expect him to have two of these.

Looks well above 50% to me.

[hrothgar]

ArcLight, on Mar 9 2007, 09:09 PM, said:

This is MP

I have a question for the 4♥ bidders.

1. Do you expect to make the hand, or are you bidding as a sac?

2. If you expect to make the hand, assuming RHO has 13 HCP (the middle of 11-15) that leves 12 HCP for pard and LHO.  Lets say they are  split 6-6
What 10 tricks will you make?  7♥ + 1♣ = 8
What are the other 2?

If pard has the ♠ king and LHO the ace, thats 1.
Pard may also have wasted values in Dimes, like the Q.

How likely are you to make 4♥?

If < 50%, is it worth bidding 4? 
What about 3♥?

Maybe you can set the opps in a part score?

Arclight (obliquely) brings up a couple interesting points:

I ran a very quick sim to see who many tricks this hand will take in a Heart contract

8 tricks 4
9 tricks 13
10 tricks 16
11 tricks 6
12 1

A couple things stood out from the sim

First: The odds of making slam look pretty slim... When I originally suggested a 3♥ bid, I was assuming that the 4♥ jump should show real strength. (Preempts over preempts are strong and I was assuming that the 5-5 hand should be treated as a preempt) My primary concern about the 4♥ bid was not that we'd go down, but rather than partner would get excited and explore for slam with inappropriate hands.

Second: On the hands where we went down, the opponents were typically making game in Spades or 5m

I did a slightly more random sim in which I assigned South 7+ Hearts and 10+ HCP

7 tricks 2
8 tricks 6
9 tricks 11
10 tricks 15
11 tricks 6
12 tricks

The pattern was pretty similar.

Gearing methods towards exploring for slam doesn't look particularly reasonable. I'd like to change my vote to 4♥.

Also, the NAMYATS structure that I like over a preemptive hand with both minors (say 7 - 11 HCP) doesn't look like a winner here.
However, it might be reasonable to differentiate between a raise to 4♥ with good defensive values and purely preemptive raise.

[whereagles]

4♥ seems canonical. I'm more worried what to do if LHO bids 5m than going down on this game