[whereagles]

If you never preempt with a side king or ace, you sure are going to pass a lot...

[Chamaco]

hatchett, on May 26 2006, 10:34 AM, said:

I don't follow your point are you suggesting you should never pre-empt with a side K? In any case opposite a passed partner who cares?

Preempting with wasted side values is dangerous even if pard is a passed hand.

The danger is not so much that pard will exect a different hand type, of course a passed hand pd won't expect anything.

The real danger is that having wasted values means that these values would be useful for our side if we let opps buy the hand and we end defending, therefore it is likely that opps do not have a makeable game and/or that even if they do have a makeable game, they'll get richer anyways by doubling us.

Basically, the fact we have wasted values increase the chances we are going for a phantom sac.

================

Having said that, every choice involves some risks, and, at favourable vulnerability, 3rd seat, I think it is fair to preempt with this hand.

================

A final note: if I had to choose, I would not be really worried of the side K, but rather of
a. the stiff H Q,
and
b. the fact we have a side 4 bagger (this often means we have more losers we cannot ruff)

[Cascade]

Chamaco, on May 26 2006, 10:58 PM, said:

The real danger is that having wasted values means that these values would be useful for our side if we let opps buy the hand and we end defending, therefore it is likely that opps do not have a makeable game and/or that even if they do have a makeable game, they'll get richer anyways by doubling us.

Basically, the fact we have wasted values increase the chances we are going for a phantom sac.

This can be a good thing.

Sometimes the opponents will bid over our pre-empt if they can't make anything then that will be good for us.

I like to pre-empt with or without the side cards. The opponents will not know what I have and therefore will more often make the wrong decisions.

Of course sometimes it is partner who goes wrong but there are two opponents and only one partner.

[Chamaco]

Cascade, on May 26 2006, 11:51 AM, said:

This can be a good thing.
.....

Of course sometimes it is partner who goes wrong but there are two opponents and only one partner.

LOL,
I guess my next line in profile will be:

"The good thing about bridge is that we have 2 opponents and only one partner"

[cherdano]

mike777, on May 26 2006, 12:28 AM, said:

"At virtually every other table the auction was P 1D 3S 4H all pass. "


I wonder if bidding Preemptive 3 bids (3s) with an outside K is a lesson hand or not?

No, it is not.

Arend

P.S.: The lesson you are searching for is that x T9xx Jx AQT9xx at IMPS, favourable, is a 3♣ opening bid.

[cherdano]

After posting the above reply, I read further and was surprised to see that more people found 3♠ be worth discussing. Am I alone in thinking the question is between 3♠ and 4♠?
I certainly can't pass at favourable with QJT-7th and 7411 shape including a singleton
in the other major.

[whereagles]

cherdano, on May 26 2006, 02:19 PM, said:

Am I alone in thinking the question is between 3♠ and 4♠?

Definitely not... lol.

[mike777]

cherdano, on May 26 2006, 09:19 AM, said:

After posting the above reply, I read further and was surprised to see that more people found 3♠ be worth discussing. Am I alone in thinking the question is between 3♠ and 4♠?
I certainly can't pass at favourable with QJT-7th and 7411 shape including a singleton
in the other major.

Yes, I would bid 4s before 3s, I thought there was more discussion left in this hand. . And yes that sounds like a lesson but maybe not.

[FrancesHinden]

I would have thought 3S was a fairly normal action on the hand opposite a passed partner.

Even looking at the full hand it's hard to say if 3S is a 'success' or not, as 4H is off on a club lead - but you will get the singleton spade lead whether or not you pre-empt.

(At one table East tried a 1H overcall over 1D which got pretty much what it deserved: -800 in 4Sx)