[badderzboy]

Scoring: MP

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if u bid any no. of hearts ptr bids 4NT (RKCB) how do u respond?
(do u play 5NT = 2KC + useful void for example )?
if u bid 5♥ Partner bids 5NT then 6♥ after u show no Kings do u bid 7?

Partner holds

Scoring: MP

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Do u get to 7♥s?

Steve

[mr1303]

I'll bid 4D. I think this should show a void, since I can bid 3D to show a singleton (2D would be a forcing reverse). If so, after 4NT I'll just bid 5H showing my 2 key cards.

If partner then bids 5NT, I'll just bid 7H. I won't bother with showing kings.

[FrancesHinden]

What happened to the old fashioned 4C rebid, usually showing a 4-6 in hearts and clubs?

I'd do that: I'm slightly light in HCP but the 7th club makes up for it. Partner will go ballistic over that (value call would be 7H but he might be cowardly and check for keycards first).

[Miron]

4♦ as void is the best bid. You have less points but 7-4.

[Gerben42]

I vote 4♣ also, can't find it...

[mr1303]

4C shows a solid suit, does it not?

[FrancesHinden]

As ever things are a matter of agreement, but traditionally 4C shows 4 hearts, 6 clubs and a raise to game. It's a rare enough call as it is, needing it to show solid clubs as well means it'll never come up.

I agree that Qxx AJ10x - AJ10xxx isn't really enough for a 4C call, but the 7th club makes this a very powerful hand, and makes it very easy for partner to bid.

[Walddk]

I'm in the 4♦ camp. Shows a void because, as Mark points out, I have 3♦ available as a singleton splinter. I am going to accept a grand slam try later (5NT by responder).

In my book 4♣ would show a better club suit, at least two of the three top honours.

Roland

[coyot]

No problem with 4♦. I will either be able to ruff out enough diamonds or establish clubs and draw trump to make the game - and this is my last good chance to show the void. Sure, partner might give me 4405 instead of 2407, but no bid can be perfect.

After that, he'll RKCB, hear 5♥ from me (2 aces without the queen) and by that time, he should try the grand. From his point of view:

If I have 6 clubs with AQ, he has 4 sure discards (unblock club king, cross by diamond ruff, ruff a club, draw trumps and pitch 3 spades and one diamond on the clubs that now pull against 4:2 break.

If I have 7 clubs to the ace, 1 ruff will be enough with clubs breaking 3:2, with 4-1 break it is still possible with hearts 2:2 for sure. And if I happen to have 5 clubs only, the likelihood of me having something extra (like spade king or solid clubs) is pretty good.

[kenrexford]

This may be sick, but my initial reaction was a simple 2H. I do not expect this to pass out. No call is textbook with 2407 pattern, but 2H is a nice start to later take bizarre action and have it understood.

On the actual hand, 2H works well. Partner should explore with his hand, perhaps cuebidding 2S (initially taken as a game try). I then can jump to 4D as a delayed splinter, a VERY odd action. Or, a jump to 4C as a flawed 6-4 call. In either event, partner should expect a flaw, and wild shape. Stiff King of clubs being huge for these patterns, 7H should be biddable.

Any other call avoids the risk of an extremely rare pass-out (in which case perhaps game does not actually make) with the gain of much better ability to describe the hand later, in my opinion.

[P_Marlowe]

Jlall, on Feb 14 2006, 10:08 AM, said:

Assuming 3D is not available as a mini splinter, I would just bid 3H. This is mainly a style thing though, I would bid 3H on many balanced 18 counts as well so I don't consider it an underbid. I expect partner to bid game with KQxxx and out for instance. It seems to me like 4D can just get us overboard when partner has a lot of points but the wrong hand.

Thanks, ... I wanted to write 3H (I voted for it already),
but I did not really want to be again the odd man out.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hrothgar]

Put me in the 3♥ camp...

For what its worth, I'm the solid suit 4♣ camp. I agree that its a rare response, but given the amount of bidding space it eats up, it probably needs to be...

[joshs]

Well my double raises are very sound (E.G 18-19 balanced with 4 card support is just a double raise), so this is a 3H or 3D bid for me (3D if its a mini-splinter is my preference). If partner bids 4N, playing standard methods, I can bid 5N (2 keycards and a void). Its worth discussion in your partnership if 6C over that asks for the void, asks for the trump Q, or is something else.

In my usual methods the auction would go:
1C-1H-3D(shortage in D or in S, and a hand worth 3H or 5H)-3S(asking for shortage)-3N(Short diamonds)-4S(rkc)-6C(2, no Q and diamond void)-7H(we might have play for 8 hearts!)

In these methods, if partner didn't ask for the shortness first, I would not show a void in my key card steps.

[mike777]

mr1303, on Feb 14 2006, 07:04 AM, said:

4C shows a solid suit, does it not?

4C

This is hotly debated in books and on this forum. I am in the "does not promise solid clubs" band.

[han]

For me 4C shows a better club suit.

I would like to bid 3D to show a mini-splinter.

[mr1303]

I can live with something like AKJTxx or so, but AJTxxxx is too broken for my liking.

[mcphee]

The understanding I have of the 4C rebid is to show 6 running C and 4 card support that does not have the other suits controled, typically xx and x. With Kx and x you would elect to splinter. Perhaps I am wrong but this seems like a sensible understanding.

I will vote for only 3D and make 3H a close second choice. The ability to play game is not so clear to me but I want to offer partner as much encouragement as possible. If something positive takes place, like 3S I can always show the void later. Are these hands really so powerful that we can stand an initial tap on dummies trumps in addition to setting up C if partner has just 1C? Maybe I am being cowardly, but I want more to make the GF call really. Opposite 4 small trumps we may have a very hard time making 3 when there is no C fit or help. Maybe I'm a whimp.

[kenrexford]

Sounds like 2H might be getting closer and closer to acceptance as a legitimate option? LOL