[pclayton]

The other thread was similar to a hand I had last night. Playing with a pickup pard u hold white on red: ♠KJ9xx, ♥JTxx, ♦x, ♣xxx. LHO as dealer opens 3N and pard doubles. RHO tanks and passes.

Do you pull?

[Blofeld]

I think not.

[FrancesHinden]

Nope. Double is usually interpreted to mean "I have a load of high cards". I do not have a very distributional hand, so I have no reason to bid.

[Free]

Seems like this is worth a discussion with partner!

[pclayton]

I didn't pull. After RHO hitched, LHO pulled (!) to 4C and RHO bid 5.

Now what?

[whereagles]

No pull. Pard would lead from his Axx of spades (book lead) through dummy's Qxx and it goes down faster than you can say 1-2-3

After 5♣ I pass. Pard has had the chance to double 4♣ for take-out but didn't. Therefore, if he doubles now, it's for penalties, which suits us just fine.

[Gerben42]

Quote

I didn't pull. After RHO hitched, LHO pulled (!) to 4C and RHO bid 5.

Now what?

Now I call the director! Opener has shown his hand and when partner didn't pull he had no business doing so. Clear ruling it seems.

BTW don't wait with calling the director before making your bid, you can basically call as soon as 4♣ hits the table.

[Blofeld]

Gerben42, on Feb 2 2006, 06:15 AM, said:

Now I call the director! Opener has shown his hand and when partner didn't pull he had no business doing so. Clear ruling it seems.

Unless he psyched.

[Gerben42]

Then you can report the psyche with the director. In any case, I need one.

[kenberg]

On the other thread, 3NT was doubled, followed by two passes, and opener jumped to 5D. This may well have something to do with the fact that, on that thread, the 3NT bidder was in fact a third hand opening. Most people play that this is a little different since it is unlikely a passed partner has the values to sit out the double on his own, thus the 3NT may be a little exotic and 3NT opener gets to use his judgment. Assuming that, in this case, 3NT is well-defined and the opener had his well-defined values, it's hard to see why he would pull after his partner's pass, and hard to see why he would be allowed to pull after a tank and a pass. I guess the tank/pass is something like "I'm going to gamble that maybe you have a queen somewhere" and the pull is "I don't". I really hate these things, but it seems as if, after tanking, either the tanker pulls or they play 3NT doubled.

I hope someone can explain why this is wrong since I much prefer bridge to be played without the director imposing the result.

Ken

[Gerben42]

Quote

I hope someone can explain why this is wrong since I much prefer bridge to be played without the director imposing the result.

So would I, but apparently when opps bid

3NT (Dbl) ...Pass (Pass) Something

they apparently do not. If 3NT in 3rd/4th meant "I'm going to guess we cannot make slam but 3NT is a good shot" I still cannot believe that you are allowed to pull when it goes double, slow pass, sit for it. No matter how good your arguments are, be ethical and sit for it.

If partner's pass is in tempo I have no problem with running, that means you probably were going to run anyway if doubled.

[FrancesHinden]

I agree that if the 3NT opener has a normal 3NT opener then he is not allowed to pull after the tank. Simply having an 8th card and/or a void would not be enough for me as the TD: he made his decision when he opened 3NT.

But that doesn't mean we don't still have a problem here on the auction. There are many reasons to try and get this right:
i) We may get a better result than we would have got defending 3NTx
ii) Opener may turn out to have mis-sorted his hand (or whatever) and be allowed to have his pull. Maybe his shape is 1 0 11 1 - I'd allow a 5D bid on that hand as well....
iii) ACBL TDs in particular are often very harsh in this sort of position. If we do something now that they deem not to be "continuing to play bridge" they can adjust for our opponents but we keep our result. That doesn't usually happen in England, because we say that as you should have been defending 3NTx it doesn't matter what you did afterwards as you shouldn't have been in that position.

[FrancesHinden]

kenberg, on Feb 2 2006, 03:42 PM, said:

I really hate these things, but it seems as if, after tanking, either the tanker pulls or they play 3NT doubled.

I hope someone can explain why this is wrong since I much prefer bridge to be played without the director imposing the result.

Ken

It's right, and it also seems right to me.

Otherwise they are using that ol' black magic: pass smoothly means "I have a good hand", pass after thinking means "I might want to pull this but I'm not sure, what do you think".

If we want to play bridge without the TD imposing the result, we have to learn to obey the Laws, in particular the Law about UI.

[pclayton]

Pard should have doubled 4♣ for takeout. He held: QTxxx, AQxx, KQxx, void.

Another nice advertisement for the Ripstra idea I think.

3N was making. LHO got what she deserved when she pulled after her husband's hitch.

-600 was pretty normal. -100 for 5♠ would have been a top. -750 would have been a goose egg.

Didn't feel like calling the director at any point - it was the last round and I wasn't hanging around for the scores.