[Wackojack]

Scoring: IMP

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Bidding which some might not like, but not asking for comments here:
W N E S
1♣ p 1♥ 2♠
3♥ 3♠ 4♥ p
p p p

You lead ♦4, west plays low, partner J, to declarer's K. Declarer then plays ♠J, you Q and partner 3. Partner would by default play reverse count unless he judges suit preference to be more important. What card would you play now and why?

[Gerben42]

♣J

If you play another ♦ declarer will set up his long ♦ for a ♣ discard before partner got his ♣K.

[Kalvan14]

Preference should not be important here (a clubs return stands out), so pard should have 4 spades (and declarer 2). The risk in playing clubs is that declarer might have Tx. I return Q♦

[FrancesHinden]

Gerben42, on Jan 30 2006, 02:00 PM, said:

♣J

If you play another ♦ declarer will set up his long ♦ for a ♣ discard before partner got his ♣K.

If that's the hand then declarer has already misplayed it.

For the long diamond to be important for a club discard, declarer's shape is 2632, or 3532. That's consistent with the auction, but there's no reason for him to have played a spade at trick two with that: he could just play diamonds himself (before or after some trumps depending on his trump holding).

If we trust that declarer is doing something reasonable (dubious of course, but we have to start somewhere) then it's not a tempo hand, because he's deliberately given up a tempo. I can't construct a hand where we need to attack clubs at once.

My instinct is just to play another diamond, because it attacks dummy's entries and sets up a trick for us. If declarer has 9x the 8 will be good soon, but again that was always the case once we'd led one.

An alternative is to play a trump. If declarer is indeed 35(32) a trump might be necessary. But partner seems to have 4 spades (and if declarer has that hand he probably should have played a minor at trick 2 anyway).

[JSilver]

At this vulnerability, I doubt partner would let 4♥ play if he had 4♠. More likely, he has 2. In that case, declarer will need some ruffs in dummy, and it sure looks like he's trying to get some. I'd lead a ♥. This will put him in a bind if partner has the K. I don't think a ♣ lead is urgent or even advisable. If declarer wanted to set up the 4th ♦, he would've ducked the first trick or played another ♦ himself.

[FrancesHinden]

It didn't occur to me that partner might have 2 spades. If he could have Kx, we shouldn't have taken the first spade as declarer with J10xx is going to have a ruffing finesse against us on the 3rd round.

Maybe we need to know what sort of jump overcalls we are playing, and hence whether an even number is going to be 2 or 4!

Mind you, if declarer wants to take spade ruffs in dummy, why didn't he win the DA at trick 1 to preserve the King as an entry to hand? With a 4522 he'd hope to take 5 hearts in hand, 2 diamonds, 2 spade ruffs and a club (with the club finesse in reserve if some of the above goes wrong).

[JSilver]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 31 2006, 02:35 AM, said:

Mind you, if declarer wants to take spade ruffs in dummy, why didn't he win the DA at trick 1 to preserve the King as an entry to hand? With a 4522 he'd hope to take 5 hearts in hand, 2 diamonds, 2 spade ruffs and a club (with the club finesse in reserve if some of the above goes wrong).

Could he be 4513?

[FrancesHinden]

Yes, he could be, I didn't think of that.
But if you had something like xxxx QJ10xx K 10xx, wouldn't you play a club at trick 2?

I haven't actually worked out a hand where a diamond is necessary compared to a heart at this point, so I'm not trying to fight the diamond-is-right corner very strongly. I also haven't yet worked out a hand for declarer where a spade was right at trick 2 either, so all in all I'm just confused about this hand.

The only thing I feel is wrong at this point is a club, and we agree on that...

[JSilver]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 31 2006, 03:01 AM, said:

But if you had something like xxxx QJ10xx K 10xx, wouldn't you play a club at trick 2?

I might, but I'd be worried I was letting myself in for some defensive ruffs.

[Wackojack]

Quote Frances Hinden
"For the long diamond to be important for a club discard, declarer's shape is 2632, or 3532. That's consistent with the auction, but there's no reason for him to have played a spade at trick two with that: he could just play diamonds himself (before or after some trumps depending on his trump holding).
If we trust that declarer is doing something reasonable (dubious of course, but we have to start somewhere) then it's not a tempo hand, because he's deliberately given up a tempo. I can't construct a hand where we need to attack clubs at once."

Why can't declarer's shape be 2533? I would class the opps to be average club players and playing a spade for a ruff looks reasonable at this stage. Declarer would not know that diamonds will break 3-3 and with 3 small clubs would not know that they lie badly.

Quote J Silver
"At this vulnerability, I doubt partner would let 4♥ play if he had 4♠. More likely, he has 2. In that case, declarer will need some ruffs in dummy, and it sure looks like he's trying to get some. I'd lead a ♥. This will put him in a bind if partner has the K. I don't think a ♣ lead is urgent or even advisable. If declarer wanted to set up the 4th ♦, he would've ducked the first trick or played another ♦ himself."

Your overcall is ostensibly weak but at this vulnerability after partner has passed could be undisciplined. I would guess that partner's raise must be with at least 3 and suggests some defence against 4H.

It would seem reasonable to put partner with either 2623 2524 or 2533 shape. I can't see a diamond lead having any advantage over a club lead with any of these distributions, whereas it could be essential to lead a club to break the contract if declarer is 2533 shape. So the question moves on to what does partner need in clubs. If partner has K109 you have 2 club tricks if you lead the jack. If partner has K10x you need to lead small from J6. .....................Oh it has just occurred to me that if you grab 2 club tricks they are set up, so with trumps 3-2 they can provide discards to make 10 tricks. So perhaps it doesn't matter what you lead back.

Scoring: IMP

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This was the actual deal and I was sitting north. Partner played a 2nd diamond and after trumps were drawn, one losing club was discarded on the established diamond. When the contract was made I perhaps unjustifiably berated partner for not switching to a club.

Onto the bidding. I am never sure in these circumstances whether or not I should compete to the 3-level in spades, thereby possibly pushing opponents into the heart game which they otherwise might not have bid. On the other hand you could argue that if 4H makes they would have bid it anyway. Should you compete to 3S only if you have good defence to 4H? Views on this gratefully received.

[FrancesHinden]

Wackojack, on Jan 31 2006, 05:45 PM, said:

.....................Oh it has just occurred to me that if you grab 2 club tricks they are set up, so with trumps 3-2 they can provide discards to make 10 tricks. So perhaps it doesn't matter what you lead back.

Beat us to it....

Quote

Onto the bidding.  I am never sure in these circumstances whether or not I should compete to the 3-level in spades, thereby possibly pushing opponents into the heart game which they otherwise might not have bid.  On the other hand you could argue that if 4H makes they would have bid it anyway.  Should you compete to 3S only if you have good defence to 4H?  Views on this gratefully received.

I would have bid 4S on North's hand over 3H at favourable vulnerability. I'm not a huge fan of the LAW, but here I would say 10-card fit = bid at the 4-level. It's unlucky they have two hearts to take against 4Sx, but lucky there is no diamond ruff, so that makes -300 about par.

[JSilver]

I'd've bid 4♠ over the double. Put maximum pressure on East. Maybe he'll pass; maybe he'll bid 5♥. If he passes and West doubles again, he still has a difficult decision. In the worst case, if both 4♥ and 4♠ fail, you'll lose a few IMPS, but not nearly what you lose if 4♥ makes, nor as much as you'll gain if you push them to 5.