BBO Discussion Forums: sort your cards, don't shuffle them - BBO Discussion Forums

Applying the Laws of Duplicate Bridge is important (We actually have clubs write in asking that all revokes be charged two tricks--always!) but in a case like this ACBL would not choose to interfere with a perspective that still maintains the spirit of the law--preventing UI.

On the flip side-- I would hope that Club Management will also be encouraging and positive about those times when players forget to do the sorting, not assessing penalties in the spirit of that verb "should."

We actually have clubs write in asking that all revokes be charged two tricks--always!

When I take my cards out of the board, I count them in a manner that causes them to end up unsorted, even if they started sorted (The reason I know this is that at EBU congresses they use a lot of new packs of cards, so the hands are sorted when the boards are first given out). I wonder if a lot of people do the same (unsort them by counting, that is, not use new packs of cards ).

So, before the latest revision of the Laws, it was a suggestion to shuffle, not a requirement, and many players in the UK by long-term habit would sort every hand. I had one or two of them playing here - frequently I'd get a call round 2 stating "my hand's sorted". I'd look two tables down, look back, and say "I'm not surprised. This might not be the last time."

This was getting less common in the UK (especially because of people who "don't sort them right" and others who read the resorting), and more officially discouraged; but the 1997 laws took that allowance out, and the UK has beat over their last hang-ons (or I haven't heard otherwise).

I think that going to "all sort" is going to be met at least as often in practise as "all shuffle", and the complaints are going to be just as good. Especially if a hand from a "never sorts" shows up sorted.

I wouldn't mind the law saying that you do one or the other, as long as you're consistent, and the cards don't come in play order. But that's not what the Law says, and going against it *now* is stupid. Especially as you're going to train club players, and they're going to go elsewhere to play tournaments (oh that's right, you're in "wouldn't drive 2 hours for a Regional" territory. Okay, "they're going to go to Nationals" :-) and have either to untrain, or face several L7 complaints.

how many players sort their hands into suits and then rank the cards ?

I also think it's illegal, as it conflicts with Law 7C.

The new thing: sorting the cards into suits, not necessarily in numerical order, after playing the hand.

Interesting that all the responders want to discuss the merits of the change, and not one of you addressed the legality of it.

In principle, I am sympathetic towards the idea of changing this rule. It saves time.

If you post in "Changing Laws & Regulations" the proposed change is by definition illegal under the current laws. Otherwise a change wouldn't be necessary, would it?

Interesting. Each player sorts her hand once; how does doing it after the hand save time compared with doing it before? In fact, sorting after would probably prompt/prolong a time-wasting post mortem.

If you're proposing a change to the Laws, that's true (unless you're just proposing a clarification). But this thread is about a club regulation, and blackshoe was pointing out that we should be discussing whether the regulation is legal under the Laws.

The ACBL will not be getting involved.

The ACBL has to get involved to some extent if this regulation is implemented; it will have to withdraw membership from the clubs in question -- remove them from its website, and in general not support the clubs or allow them to participate in interclub activities, issue masterponts etc.